Tyson Fury . Genuine great fighter or personality driven legacy?

Stinker or not Wlad had no answers for Fury's style. Would it have been nice to see a rematch, sure. But in my book you don't earn one by losing every round to the underdog.

I think saying Fury ran away is a bit harsh. He clearly had a mental breakdown and essentially retired, getting on the booze and ate his way to 400 pounds. When he did come back, he gunned straight for Wilder when it was a massive risk, arguably more dangerous opponent than Wlad was for him in hindsight. I genuinely don't see the argument that Fury was scared of an opponent he embarrassed in his home turf.

And if we're being honest fighting Jake Paul instead of trying to avenge your loss isn't a great look for AJ either.

 

Wlad didn't look himself, though.

When you're that big a favourite? You kinda deserve the chance to set the record straight - especially when there are mitigating circumstances.

Even if "ran away" seems harsh, the end result is the same - no rematch against the guy that badly wanted it and might well have won it... It's a big old asterisk.

I'm not sure running straight for the obviously overrated and much lesser champ of the era is that much to suggest he's mega keen on dangerous fights... Especially having been so reluctant to fight Usyk, later.

Oh absolutely.

But that's the point - not wanting the rematch is an admission you know the result was right.

Wlad knew he couldn't have been much better against AJ (at that point) just as AJ did against Dubois...

On the other hand, Wlad felt he could have been much better against Fury and wanted that rematch - to me that says plenty.

 

I'm sorry but if a mandatory challenger wins a belt there's no real need for a rematch when the first fight was quite decisive

Klit can say what he wants about not being himself etc but he chose to go ahead with the fight and Fury beat the champ that was in front of him

 

No-win situation if you're telling champs to fight in poor condition or just pull out (and face all kinds of accusations).

I get where you guys are coming from - I just think well proven champions getting the chance to set the record straight is only fair... I don't necessarily mind trilogies at 1-1, either.

You're absolutely right that Fury beat what was in front of him... But regardless of whether Wlad deserved that rematch or not (agree to disagree on it) - the fact that's question marks over Wlad means there's an asterisk against that win.

The asterisk could've been removed with a rematch - Fury was the reason that didn't happen, ergo Fury deserves to keep that asterisk.

 

Who's telling the champ to go ahead tho?
Klitschko had every power to delay it or cancel
The ball was always in his court

 

On the one hand, you're not really wrong - he could delay if he wanted.

On the other...
1) I just can't support telling fighters it's okay to fight less often - they already don't fight enough.
2) In a sport fueled by pride and testosterone, the idea of delaying and having to deal with the accusations of hiding/ducking/running scared/etc just doesn't really add up - more fighters would go through with it rather than deal with that.

Regardless of whether he had the ability to choose - it's still the case that he fought in questionable condition, and still the case that Fury has an asterisk.

Fury had a way to remove his asterisk, he didn't take it - why should he get a pass on that?

 

Pure hype job whose real talent was in fighting only washed up fighters or bums.

 

No pass really

I just don't buy in to the narrative Fury owed him anything
He's time was up

 

Fury has beaten fewer ring ranked heavyweights than John Ruiz.

In terms of accomplishments having him outside the top 25 seems reasonable

 

So you're saying it wasn't that good a win, so who cares if Wlad wasn't in a great place?

I'm sure the Fury fans would thank you for that take

Either way, there's no questioning Wlad was well past his peak and on the way down - and there's no questioning that Wlad wanted to rematch and it's on Fury that it didn't.

As far as I'm concerned it's an asterisk and always will be.

 

Resume isn't impressive, but eye test says great. Low level great based on eye test and resume combined. Eye test only means so much. It's nothing compared to who you actually beat.

 

It's like a multiplier... Looking great against mediocrity isn't worth too much - showing skill is only worth so much unless you can be effective with it against good opponents.

 

Na I've not said that and not sure how you come to that conclusion
It was a great win,, moreso for boxing rather than Fury

Fury was a big underdog ( I won a small fortune) so despite it being noticeable in his previous outings that he was not peak, he was still the champ

 

I don't agree. Being the favourite doesn't automatically entitle you to an immediate rematch, and is part of the reason why boxing is so stagnant as a sport. Usyk is probably the most prominent example of this at the moment.

By that logic if Witherspoon really wanted a rematch with Usyk would you have supported that as well? I wouldn't, because he was thoroughly outclassed and we didn't need to see it again. Same with his Dubios fight.

Again, I think you're being unfair and using hindsight for your dislike of Wilder. At the time he was considered one of the best, was a long time reigning champion who hadn't lost and had either knocked down or out all of his opponents. It was a very dangerous fight for Fury to take and if we're being objective is probably one of the contributing factors as to why we never got AJ vs Wilder (yes, I put blame on both sides here mainly promoters trying to avoid risking their golden goose).

Wlad almost KO'd AJ. There's no reason he couldn't have done that a second time.

And there's a difference "thinking" you can do better against an opponent vs actually doing it. Ironically, Fury falls into this category when it comes to Usyk.

We need to knock this whole "A side always gets a rematch" mindset out of boxing. We miss out on so many good fights because of it. If you lose, earn your way back up.

 

When you're a long standing dominant champion and a clear favourite, I think it's fair.

Usyk having to rematch Joshua was fair. Likewise Fury, though less so (partly because of the short reign, partly because Usyk having beaten Joshua raised his HW stocks massively - Joshua was the bigger favourite through context).

The Dubois rematch was just housekeeping.

Generally excessive rematches are a problem, especially when they're spaced out with guys fighting once a year or less... But when it's a changing of the guard, I don't have a problem with cementing that change - or proving a fluke for what it is.

How is that the logic?! Witherspoon wasn't any kind of favourite or any kind of champion, nor was there any suggestion that it could've gone differently whatsoever.

Wilder was clearly massively overrated - and Fury clearly knew it, or he would've waited longer to take that fight (he still clearly wasn't near 100% first time around)... Dangerous in the sense he could get hurt if it went wrong or he got unlucky, or if Wilder turned out to be much better than he'd proved.

There's a reason Fury went for Wilder rather than Joshua - and a reason Wilder ducked Joshua for so long.

And yet Wlad didn't want to fight AJ again - but he was desperate for Fury to man up and get back in there... That doesn't tell you something?

You're right - there's no guarantee that you can actually do better even if you think you can...
But there are times I think it's fair that fighters are given the chance to find out - I think Wlad with Fury was one of those, and likewise with AJ... Wlad only wanted to find out about one of the two.

I don't necessarily disagree, or at least not always.

Equally, there are times where flukes happen or fighters get lucky (whether with flash knockouts or disinterested/distracted opponents) and it's worth putting it to a rematch... If the clause isn't there it won't happen.

Lewis deserved his opportunities to rematch McCall and Rahman and set the record straight (which he did, even if the McCall rematch is an asterisk job in itself)... Wlad deserved a chance to avenge against Fury - and Fury gets an asterisk for not having given it to him.


The real reasons we miss out on lots of good fights are that fighters don't fight often enough and ducking cowards get rewarded just as much as the guys that run the gauntlet - fickle fans praising unworthy champions are far more to blame for the state of boxing than the occasional reasonable rematch.