Holyfield vs Frazier who is greater

I used to rate Frazier at 4, above Holyfield and below Ali, Louis and Holmes, based on believing he decisively won the single greatest contest in HW history and only lost to two top tens in his weight class, fought with a severe deficit in his eye through a lot of his life, and that he'd beaten one of those two men who defeated him.

...That said, I'm immensely biased on a personal level for Frazier and if I filled out a list today, maybe I couldn't do it that way, even though I don't think I was being necessarily unreasonable in my initial assertions, but with Holy's larger loss column, is a win column with an exceptionally rich depth of quality opposition, of unbelievable diversity in sizes, shapes and styles, which Frazier simply does not have.

 

Evander winning the title and possibly being the greatest cruiserweight ever gives him an edge over Frazier. They were both great heavyweights. Joe did win the Gold Medal but Holyfield was ripped off foe his.
For me Holyfield

 

Frazier, but it's a close one.

 

I have Frazier higher at HW, based solely on HW fights, Holyfield higher p4p, based on their respective entire careers.

 

Evander for me; h2h, skill-for-skill, or resume. Frazier has the better singular win and is one of my favorite fighters ever for style but I think Holyfield is clearly ahead in greatness and ability. Holyfield is one of the few fighters who could 'out-tough' Frazier. Smokin' Joe is my favorite fighter when it comes to sentimentality. Holyfield occupies a similar spot, but with a much larger catalog of top level fights and wins. Holyfield has more watchable wars, historically relevant fights, and he was more successful for longer with a wider variety of skills which would put him ahead H2H. He may have also lost the trilogy to Bowe but he beat the fight out of Bowe, too. I reckon Bowe was damn near as dangerous as the Foreman who fought Frazier if not equally so in his own way.

Frazier:
Ellis KO 1975
Quarry KO 1974
Bugner UD 1973
Stander TKO 1972
Ali UD 1971 (goat fight)
Foster KO 1970
Ellis TKO 1970
Quarry TKO 1969
Bonavena UD 1968
Mathis TKO 1968
Chuvalo TKO 1967

Holyfield:
Moorer TKO 1997
Tyson DQ 1997
Tyson TKO 1996 (great fight)
Mercer UD 1995
Bowe MD 1993 (great fight)
Stewart UD 1993
Holmes UD 1992
Cooper TKO 1991 (great fight)
Foreman UD 1991 (great fight)
Douglas KO 1990
Stewart TKO 1989
Dokes TKO 1989 (great fight)
Thomas TKO 1988
Tillis TKO 1988
--------
Qawi KO 1987
Ocasio TKO 1987
Qawi SD 1986 (great fight)

 

Tricky question. Holyfield has a more solid series of wins, but then he also has more losses. Frazier has the best win with the Ali fight. But then Holyfield is a more versatile boxer I reckon and just better overall. But the again, he could be a dirty fighter and almost certainly chugged PEDs like it was going out of fashion.

You can argue it either way.

Gun to the head, I take Holyfield, I think he'd beat Frazier H2H.

 

Frazier.

Holyfield fought all the best HWs of his era and Frazier didn't but Holyfield went .500 against his eras best HWs. Frazier went 2-4 against his 3 best opponents Ali, Foreman and Bugner with no KOs and 2 KDs. But heres a crazy fact Foreman and Bugners ghosts were HW champs during the best year of Holyfields career in 1997. A quarter century after the fact.

Cruiserweight was a safe space designed for the Jerry Quarrys of the world. Who did Quarry need a safe space from? Joe Frazier. Frazier shouldn't just be rated higher then Holy H2H but also P4P. Holyfield shouldn't get a boost because he dominated CW which did not exist when Frazier fought.

Holyfield was more durable then Frazier but Fraziers lack of durability impacted his activity more then his actual fights. Frazier could contest full fights and this is something that will always set him apart from Mike Tyson who Holyfield was able to beat. If Holyfield gets off to a good start against Frazier the fight is not close to being over.

 

Holyfield may have a greater overall career resume--but if peak Holy fought peak Frazier I think "Smokin Joe" would win a brutal war of attrition. It would be one hell of a fight but Joe's stamina, work rate, and relentless pressure would eventually be the difference. KO or stoppage for Frazier in the championship rounds (assuming a 15 round bout.)

 

This.

 

Frazier has the most important win in heavyweight history, which probably makes it the most important win in boxing history.

Even if Holyfield had a better heavyweight resumé apart from that, that would be awfully hard to top. But I think Frazier has other very good wins as well and was the dominant force in the division for 4 years, from 1968 to 1972.

So Frazier has to rank that bit above Holyfield at heavyweight, who was the best in his division for roughly 2 years and whilst reclaiming the title twice wasn’t undisputed again after losing to Bowe. He has longevity but not the same dominance.

I’d still say that Holy edges it overall when you combine his cruiserweight dominance, but it’s still close.

 

This is it. It's absolutely Frazier at heavyweight and Holy's cruiser exploits bring him right back into it P4P.

 

Joe Frazier.

Olympic Gold Medalist.

Beat the undefeated Muhammad Ali, stopped Jimmy Ellis two times, stopped Jerry Quarry two times, decisioned Oscar Bonavena two times, stopped George Chuvalo, decisioned Joe Buger, stopped Buster Mathis, stopped Eddie Machen, stopped Doug Jones, stopped Bob Foster

Only lost to Ali and Foreman.

Evander's pro wins are comparable, but he has losses to guys he never should've lost to. Even had his license revoked at one point because he was so bad.

 

Holyfield.