Evander Holyfield And Joe Frazier..

And Jimmy Ellis had better fundamentals than George Foreman, so?

 

Foreman was leagues above Bonavena in skills lol. Also Phil Jackson would be huge in the 60s, unlike the 90s Jackson would be beating a couple top contenders. At least I see it that way. The elite fighters of the 60s and 70s would be top class in any era, but the reality is the talent pool in the 90s was significantly deeper

 

Frazier takes out Holyfield late, after 12.

 

I didn't even compare Foreman to Bonavena, lol. If we going with "wouldas" Bonavena might have been a champion in the 90's if he fought Seldon.

 

The thing nostalgic fans don't get is the likes of Holyfield had better trainers than Frazier and better way to train. Better ways to boost performance that are confirmed.

Historic comparisons aren't really fair because modern fighters typically have tons of advantages unless they are in a weak era

Also the casuals complaining about PEDs, they are a tool professionals use, nearly all of the best are using them.

 

Seldon could beat Bonavena. Bonevenas best shot at a title is against Tommy Morrison

 

Just as Bonavena could beat Seldon

 

From memory the 3 main heavyweight belt holders (after Foreman was stripped of them) at one point in the 1990’s were Bruce Seldon , Frans Botha and Frank Bruno. Hardly a murderers row there.

 

Yeah, Holyfield's trainers were far better than Eddie Futch. Never mind that Benton was a Futch understudy. UR on fire.

 

Remember older version of Holyfield had more power. He was able to drop Ray Mercer, drop Riddick Bowe, stop Tyson and Moorer. The younger version was quicker, threw combinations but he would have trouble hurting Joe. I'm not sure he could back Joe up.
He hit Cooper and Foreman with everything he had I'm sure they felt him but Evander had trouble moving them. He couldnt move Bowe in that first fight.

 

In reality Holyfield might try to box Joe until he gets hit and the boxing is going out the window. Holyfield would hook with him. It would be fools gold.
The younger prime Holyfield hit about as hard as Jerry Quarry. Jerry had good power Evander was in the same neighborhood Quarry as far as power. They had similar punching styles...both with snappy lefthooks.

 

The problem is, people picked Tyson over Holyfield in their first fight because of the Cooper fight. Still do, even.

Cooper cracked a lacksidaisical Holyfield, and Holyfield won the second half of that round. So it wan't all that. Holyfield did beat Tyson after that and he took a lot of bombs from Tyson.. but he wasn't lacksidaisical there.

 

Usyk was fighting at cruiserweight and coming into the ring at around 206 into his 30's. He's beating all these lumps that are up to 40 and 50 pounds heavier. He's skilled for sure but size isn't everything. I've been posting for donkey's years about the law of diminishing returns, weight wise, at heavyweight. The bar has moved a bit over the years but Usyk certainly arrested its march, to put it mildly. The 200-225 greats sure haven't been pushed out, certainly not yet.

McCall was travelling ok. I still don't for a minute believe Tyson was near as good as he was, which is the point.

Ok so post prison Tyson beats peak Frazier. I'll say right here and now that Frazier puts up a far more potent performance against Holyfield than 96 Tyson did. I'd back him to beat 96 Holyfield with confidence. Holyfield was all bulked up and while that was good against Tyson it wouldn't be vs Frazier. He'd need all the stamina he could get. He clinched heaps against Tyson and rested frequently. That doesn't happen fighting Joe.

And another thing, Joe isn't going to cry over headbutts and nor is he going to bite his way into quitting.

One wonder how he ever won a fight, let alone reigned for ages and beat Ali lol

Holyfield had a lot of things but Frazier is well matched with him. His penchant to slug is what Frazier would be after. In all likelihood he doesn't have the power to get Joe out of there. It's a grueling distance fight in all likelihood.

We saw what Holyfield looked like his whole career, same with Joe. That's the fighters being judged. I think it's a great matchup and mildly favor Joe.

 

Frazier fought in an earlier era. The heavyweights took a jump in size in the 70s and beyond as the training advanced as well. Also the pool of natural athleticism grows as the US and world populations grow making better boxers more likely. Holyfield was a step above Frazier. Again to imagine it take an opponent that gave Frazier reasonable competition and compare them to Holyfield and they’re going to come up way short with possible exceptions of the 2 that actually beat Joe. For any shortcomings compared to them also consider Holyfield was faster and a much more skillful boxer then the young Foreman and hit substantially harder then Ali.