Since Usyk has no plans to fight Kabayel, should he vacate the WBC title?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Perkin Warbeck, Mar 10, 2026.


Should Usyk vacate the WBC title?

Poll closed Jun 17, 2026.
  1. Yes, it's the honorable thing to do

    89.0%
  2. No, even though he has no intentions of fighting Kabayel

    8.2%
  3. I'm not sure

    2.7%
  1. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    But how many HW champions in the history of the sport have been cleaning out all the top contenders at 39 y/o, let alone after clocking boxing and cleaning out 2 divisions of all their champs and highest rated contenders and almost exclusively B2B tough touches?

    26-0 Glowacki in Poland (World champ)
    17-2 Mchunu in neutral US (was robbed of being a champ)
    12-0 Hunter in the US (easily good enough to become a champ)
    40-4-1 Huck in Germany (former long reigning champ
    23-0 Briedis in Latvia (World champ, future champ)
    26-0-0 Gassiev in Russia (unified World champ)
    30-2-1 Bellew in England (former champ, undefeated at CW)

    38-3-0 Witherspoon in the US (very late notice sub, only soft touch of Usyk's career and even then he was a big puncher, 27lbs heavier than Usyk and was 8-0-0 (7KOs) in his last 8 albeit admittedly at the lower level and it was Usyk's official pro HW debut so he would've been an acceptable enough opponent even if he had a whole camp

    32-9-0 Chisora in England
    24-1 AJ in England (reigning three-belt unified champ, 2 x unified) and ranked #1 at HW by The Ring
    24-2-0 AJ in Saudi (ranked #2 by The Ring)
    19-1 Dubois in England (mandatory, WBA interim champ, future champ)
    34-0-1 in Saudi (former three-belt unified champ, reigning WBC champ and ranked #1 by The Ring
    34-1-1 Belly in Saudi ranked #1 by The Ring)
    22-2-0 Dubois in England (reigning IBF champ)

    So everyone he fought in all his world title fights at HW was ranked #1 or #2 when he fought them sans Dubois who was the WBA interim champ and his mando and he was already four months shy of turning 35 when he won his first HW world title(s)

    Wlad from the same age defended his titles vs the likes Pianeta, Leapai, Mormeck, Wach, Thompson, Jennings in between tough touches Povetkin, Haye and Pulev. How many of those guys were ranked #1 or #2 by The Ring at the time?


    Vitali was 37 when he came back and he defended his title against the likes of Sosnowski, shot Briggs, Solis, Kevin Johnson, Gomez, Arreola, Adamek, Chisora and Charr. How many of those were ranked #1 or #2 by The Ring

    I see lots of soft touches on both Wlad and Vitali's CV's from 35 onward and those 2 are the #2 and #3 oldest HW champs ever respectively and obviously both are natural career HW giants with extremely high KO% who were fighting guys their size, smaller or way smaller not way bigger and murderous puncher young lions way bigger than them

    You feel me?
     
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  2. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    through out boxing history, most heavyweight champions became champs in their 20’s. By the time they got to 39, they already had 15-25 title defenses . Ali, Holmes and Louis each had 20 or more title defenses by age 36, so they were at the end of the rope. Expecting them to clean out the division at 39 doesn’t make sense since they had already dominated for so long that they didn’t have anything left in the tank anymore
     
  3. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Yes but they also had way way shorter amateur careers, dmt, and 39 y/o is 39 y/o no matter what and the fact that only 2 fighters in HW history have won a world HW title fight older than Usyk is now and 1 retired for a decade and the other for 4 years confirms that. How is a 39 y/o who relies on speed, reflexes, reaction times, agility and movement supposed to be in their prime? He might have less pro fights but Father Time waits for no man

    Lewis had 44 fights as a pro and boxed 235 rounds

    Usyk 24 fights but 206 rounds

    Lewis had either 82, 94, or 105 amateur fights depending on which figure is correct

    Usyk had 350

    But whatever the correct figure is Usyk has boxed way more rounds than Lewis who obviously a giant and a huge puncher and ended lots of his fights early

    No one is cleaning out divisions at 39 + vs fighters way bigger than them and the #1 and #2 guys and murderous punchers much or way bigger than them B2B, let alone slick boxers who rely on speed, agility, movement, reaction times and reflexes and but Usyk is the only one who is supposed to do so and never have any soft touches

    So many are just desperate to see Usyk lose
     
  4. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    And like I keep saying, Usyk said he would never fight Belly again and changed his mind often

    He's fighting Rico. Yeah, I get it people aren't happy he's having his first soft touch of his career since moving up to the world level sans Witherspoon

    But they weren't happy he didn't fight Fabio who he has now said he will fight after Rico if they both win but people are still complaining

    Assuming he does want a huge money trilogy fight vs Belly for his final fight, the landscape can change in the blink of an eye. What if Belly gets chinned by the massive punching Mak? Many lesser punchers have dropped a prime Belly

    And everyone knows the fight they're most desperate to make is Belly vs AJ and this year, Belly losing to Usyk a third time isn't going to help that so there's a good chance that will happen instead

    Belly could fight Kabayel after Mak or the winner of Fabio vs Dubois. Who knows what's going to happen?

    Usyk could fight Kabayel after Rico so if he fought Rico, Fabio and Kabayel for his last 3 fights but people would still find something to criticize him for
     
  5. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    I think amateur fights do cause wear and tear. But not to the extent that doing a 2-3 month camp per fight does. My point was some of the guys I mentioned could have also succeeded at 38-39 if they had access for today’s medicine and more scientific way of preparing, and if they hadn’t been defending 2-4 times a year for 10 plus years

    I don’t want to see Usyk lose. I would rather that he retire unbeaten. He is an atg and the best of his era

    It’s just that it’s time to close this era so we can get a new one. If someone is too old to be an active champ, it’s time to move on and do exhibitions and give the belts up.
     
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  6. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    I'm not directing that wanting to see Usyk lose comment at you, dmt

    It causes a ton of wear and tear. They aren't just training year round and fighting the best fighters in their city, country, region, continent, or in the world they're sparring all the time too.

    Usyk trains like a maniac

    Many elite amateurs with extremely extensive amateur careers left their best form and years in the amateur ranks and burned out quicky in the pros.

    The only fighter to allegedly ever drop Usyk with a headshot Korobov is one such example. He was an amazing amateur and one of the best I've ever seen but his body was falling to pieces in his mid 30s. He lost his last 2 fights (both of which he was winning easily albeit one had only gone a round but he was lighting his opponent up with ease for the short time it lasted) on 2 separate injuries after 2 and 4 rounds respectively. His body broke down on him in B2B fights and he never fought again. 312 amateur fights much of that spent fighting at the elite level and he retired at 37

    Maybe they could of but the fact is no one doing what Usyk is or is expected to at this age vs #1 and #2 contenders and way bigger younger and big or murderous punchers in their backyards

    We will get a new one soon but, as said, we have no idea what the landscape is going to look like in a few months, let alone further than that and Usyk may well fight Kabayel next or Fabio then Kabayel or maybe neither if both lose
     
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  7. Cyrion

    Cyrion Active Member Full Member

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    Facts are, what Usyk is doing in dropping belts and taking a more lucrative voluntary fight is the norm with HW champs.

    Lennox swerved Chris Byrd by dropping the IBF belt so he could go beat up old, crazy, shot to pieces Mike Tyson for a small fortune.

    George Foreman dropped TWO belts to avoid fights he didn't want to make with rightful challengers. The Alex Schulz situation was actually egregious since Alex was robbed of a clear win versus Foreman and then Foreman told him to F off for the rematch. Could you imagine if Usyk had swerved his rematch with Fury (a fight which he clearly won)?

    Also, the only guy in the modern era to clean out an entire division is Ali. All these other guys had plenty of opportunity to do so and didn't. Lennox had a damn near 50 fight career and he missed half the legit names of the 90s (though to be fair Bowe did ultra-duck him). Foreman fought nothing but cans during his entire comeback outside of Holyfield (lost), Morrison (lost), and Moorer (squeaked a win because Moorer is an idiot). Never tried to clean the division out Nobody ever brings up those guys as ducks, or cowards, or not being honorable and disrespecting the game.

    And Kabayel and Wardley are randos. I like both those guys, but they are. The belts are a joke anyway. No one considers Wardly the HW champ of the world. What they could be doing is fighting each other. Give the fans what they want to see and then have a nice big pelt on the wall so Usyk would have to respect them. At least Wardley is trying to go after a decent opponent in Dubois instead of scheduling a bum of the month and crying in his cornflakes like Kabayel. Usyk is catching hell for selectively choosing opponents at 39 years old and Kabayel isn't when he's doing the exact same thing.
     
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  8. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Kabayel isn’t fighting randos

    Kabayel was an underdog vs Makhmudov. He then fought Sanchez who was top 10 and unbeaten. Then fought another top 10 guy in Zhang. Then had one warm up stay busy fight
     
  9. LoveThis

    LoveThis Sweet Science Full Member

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    We have the same opinion in that usyk is THE standout fighter in the heavier weight classes of this decade. His career is flawless and he took every meaningful challenge, which is exceedingly rare in boxing. Zero criticizm possible.

    BUT there is a sharp change in trajectory NOW. He doesn't seem to be guided by the whatever guided him on his path before.

    He changes his mind every other day on his next opponents. He tried to make a useless Fight against wilder. Then he actually makes an even more useless fight against a kickboxer who doesnt even have to prove himself one bit before, because he would lose against anyone(!). He binned his belt instead of fighting wardley. He is not fighting kabayel so far and doesn't name him at all, when he should probably bring in decent money and is the mandatory for the wbc.

    I mean maybe it is all about supporting the ukraine and that would definitely be understandable and more meaningful than boxing legacy.

    But from a boxing fan's standpoint i think one has to judge current usyk's decisions in a different light from past usyk's. He is by far the most accomplished fighter, but he is having fantasy fights while others don't get their shot and that's not right. It isn't right no matter if it is him or joshua or fury or wilder.

    I am not a fanboy but a fan of boxing. And this is always bad for boxing. Nothing new though, so obviously noone can pretend it is only usyk doing it like this. But we cannot pretend usyk still being the standout take-on-every-challenge-guy anymore
     
  10. OldSchoolBoxing

    OldSchoolBoxing Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No.

    We should all honor Usyk by allowing him to retire as the undisputed heavyweight champion.
     
  11. Cyrion

    Cyrion Active Member Full Member

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    There aren't enough words in the english language to describe how mid Makhmudov is. This is a guy who had a competitive fight with Dave Allen for goodness sake.

    Sanchez had a bum leg and you can rate him wherever you want, he's nothing special even when he's not on one leg.

    Zhang is the only semi-legit opponent there. And he's a dude on the wrong side of 40 who dies in the ring if he has to go past four rounds.

    The belts are nonsense and ya'll act like they're sainted pieces of iconography. The rankings matter even less. Okolie is ranked #1 in the WBC for crying out loud. This is a fat, awful Cruiserweight who has only beaten the likes of Lerena and Tetteh at HW. He's #1? Really? Even worse, Itauma is #1 in the WBA AND the WBO! A kid who hadn't fought anyone except the corpse of Dillian Whyte. Make that make sense.

    You can make anyone a Top 10 HW and the sanctioning bodies have. So arguing a guy has faced a hard road of opponents because a dude was in the Top 10 is laughable. Kabayel is a Queensberry fighter. He could have been pushing for fights with any number of Queensberry guys like Parker, Wardley, or Hrgovic. Nope. David Kynba.

    Also, I'm still waiting on someone to explain Kabayel's six year vacation fighting no names in Germany after his bout with Chisora. Usyk got his opportunities at HW because he smashed every top level guy at Cruiserweight in their backyard. Then he continued to get opportunities because he smashed AJ. He took all the hard fights and he took them on enemy soil. If he'd wandered off to go fight back in Ukraine for six years against cans nobody would give a damn about him.
     
  12. gollumsluvslave

    gollumsluvslave Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rico shouldn't be fighting for a title - that is a real kick in the nuts for some many boxers over the years who had to wait, wait wait for a shot and in some cases it never even materialised for them.

    Love Usyk, but the Rico fight is pretty much undefendable IMO as a title bout; sure drop the belts and have money and spectacle bouts if that's what you want to do.

    Usyk MUST fight Wardley or Kabayel next or vacate, otherwise he is further tarnishing his legacy IMO - which is probably what irks me the most about things at the moment; Usyk has had an exemplary resume and trajectory and can't really be criticised for ANYTHING at all, but now he is really opening himself up to criticism, and his resume and legacy to be called more into question.

    I'd be a rank hypocrite if I did not give Usyk the same pelters for Rico that Fury got for Francis! And that wasn't even a title fight!

    I think the other thing that bears on this is Usyk maybe going back on his workd a bit - he said he'd fight the winner of Parker v Wardley, but he didn't, maybe he expected it to be Parker and doesn't think that Wardley adds to his legacy, but it's more legitimate than a kickboxer ffs.

    Anyway, boxing stinks at the minute between this and the floyd manny crap
     
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  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Criticized for fighting Brits

    Criticized for not fighting Fabio

    Vacated his belt and was criticized for not fighting Fabio but now he says he's going to fight the winner of Fabio vs Dubois he's criticized for it

    Said he will never fight Belly again

    Now say the trilogy vs Belly will be the final fight of his career

    Except Belly has to get past Mak first and word on the street is Belly vs AJ is signed so he has to get through AJ after that too in order for that to happen

    Fabio vs Dubois is a 50-50 fight and one which can end in the blink of an eye and early too

    Belly vs AJ is a 50-50 fight

    Belly vs Mak might seem like a routine win for Belly but Mak is a massive puncher and Belly is 37 now and won't have fought in 16 months by the time they fight in the ring and if Ngannou can drop and almost beat an overconfident underprepared 35 y/o Belly and many other lesser punchers have dropped and hurt him it's not a forgone conclusion for Belly who has been guilty of fighting down to the level of his opposition numerous times.

    Who knows what will happen with Kabayel in his next fight? He could potentially lose or Usyk may decide to fight him after Rico before the the WBC strip him

    Usyk changes his mind often, trolls sometimes, and the landscape can completely change often too so I'm not taking anything as gospel until any of these fights are officially announced

    Maybe Usyk is just looking for the biggest money fights out there now for the last few remaining fights of his career during his exit strategy after a career of exemplary conduct facing the best and nothing but tough touches almost exclusively B2B and treading a path few others have or would, including so many of his fellow greats, some of who refused to ever do once what he did religiously, and maybe he will fight Fabio and Kabayel after Rico providing he and they all win their next fights

    I'm going to wait to see what happens before I judge someone for doing something they haven't actually done yet


    Look at the disrespect Usyk's countryman and long time friend Loma is and was subjected to? Like Usyk he was a pure legacy fighter model pro who sought out and fought the best, many times on a deck stacked against him, and was very often the smaller, much or way smaller man fighting in a division which he was tiny for vs much or way bigger fighters, a division which would've been his 7th-9th one had he turned pro at the same age and he didn't move up in weight because he was a massive weight bully like so many of these multi-weight champs, especially North American ones, he did so because he dared to be great.

    And like Usyk he achieved everything he did the hard and honourable way in his opponent's backyards or on the road, with zero deck-stacking, cheating, trying to cripple or weaken opponents at the negotiating table and won his fights via the application of pure skill, technical wizardry, and clean boxing.

    He never put a foot wrong and he fought the best and took nothing but tough challenges throughout his career, from from the get-go with only a few softer touches at 126 after beating GRJ and they were still decent fighters and when he moved up to 135 he fought nothing but world champions, former world champions and top contenders B2B to B2B even after losing or suffering very serious injuries and having undergone surgery he did so in his first fight back months later when 99% of other fighters take softer touches and they were all much or way bigger than him.

    He fought 7 world champs at 135 alone, again all much or way bigger than him, and 2 of the other guys he fought were either robbed of becoming world champions or lost by a hair in world title fights both vs excellent fighters/multi-weight champs.

    But he gets zero respect from so many for doing it the way he did whilst these same people worship at the altar of the likes of Crawford, Shakur, and so many others who never once did what Loma and Usyk did routinely and never will in their careers or will ever be expected to by them either and who openly tell us they won't and that they won't fight much bigger fighters even on their obligatory stacked decks at home with home refs and judges.

    But ''Loma ducked Shakur doe''

    Yes, just keep returning to the crime scene when you've already been robbed numerous times vs our boys and had a huge part of your legacy stolen from you so the three home judges can rob you again, meanwhile our boys will never once dare do what you did many times or ever get robbed vs a foreigner in their entire careers because they won't ever have to fight any in their countries with a home ref and three home judges

    So many of these multi-weight champs are massive weight bullies who are still much bigger or bigger or at worst roughly the same size as their career opponents when they move up 1,2, 3, 5 or even 5 divisions and in complete contrast to Loma and Usyk are not fighting bigger opponents when they move up, let alone much or way bigger than them like Loma's and Usyk's opponents were/are

    And so many multi-weight champs are PED cheats

    But people treat massive weight bully multi-weight champs and PED cheats and clean multi-weight champs like Loma and Usyk like they're exactly the same and are doing the same thing when they're very different and doing 2 very different things and one is much more risky, difficult, impressive and honourable.

    So what exactly is the point of doing it the righteous, honourable, honest and much more difficult and risky way when you receive no credit for doing so and others who do a complete inversion of that are held in the same regard or often higher or much higher regard?
     
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  14. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Here's a brief snippet of footage of Rico sparring Belly over a decade ago

    Now whilst you might say he doesn't look impressive you also have to factor in he was in against slick, awkward and elusive pre-Kronk Belly who made world champions and world class pros look bad and struggle land on him with his slickness, skills, movement and high ring IQ and Rico had a lot less experience training boxing back then and Belly would go onto dethrone long-reigning unified champ Wlad weeks/ or at most a few months after in his very next fight

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    A very green Rico was sparring the best HW in the world at the time who was awkward and slick as hell and who could make even the absolute best look bad
     
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  15. like a boss

    like a boss have gloves will travel Full Member

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    The poll shows 90% think this is a 'horrible thing to do' while a very small minority desperately try to polish the turd :lol:
     
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