What do we define as a "duck" ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by mrbigshot, Mar 13, 2026.

  1. tarrant45

    tarrant45 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Avoiding the next guy in line/biggest fight for an easier opponent. Ducking is not a complex concept unless you want it to be, which many do.
     
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  2. Rexrapper 1

    Rexrapper 1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    A duck to me is a fight that the boxing world wants to see that one fighter is clearly avoiding. Examples would be Canelo avoiding Benavidez and Gervonta avoiding Shakur.
     
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  3. LoveThis

    LoveThis Sweet Science Full Member

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    There are things way harder to define in boxing. Try "pound for pound" and not going mad :-D
     
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  4. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Doesn't buy hypejobs Full Member

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    A duck is the avoidance of a worthy opponent who has a reasonable chance of beating you, without good reason to do so - cowardice is heavily implied.

    Sometimes worthy is obvious, sometimes it isn't.
    Sometimes a reasonable chance of winning is obvious, sometimes it isn't.
    What constitutes good reason to fight someone else is a matter of opinion.

    There's plenty of subjectivity... But if it's fair to call something a duck, it'll probably fit this definition.


    For me...
    Worthy includes mandatories - it doesn't include guys you've already beaten twice.

    A reasonable chance of winning is partly tied in with worthiness and resumes, but if we're talking 70/30 kind of fights, that's not really a reasonable chance for the guy on 30... You can't duck someone who only has a punchers chance.

    A good reason to fight someone else could be more prestige (a title or unification fight instead of a fight for ranking, or a defence), it could even be a lot more money.
     
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  5. The Cryptkeeper

    The Cryptkeeper Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Don’t feed the troll mate.
     
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  6. boxfan78

    boxfan78 New Member Full Member

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    According above stated definitions: Did Ottke duck Calzaghe? Did Roy duck Michailewski? Did Stevenson duck Kovalev? Who ducked who out of Joshua and Wilder?
     
  7. mrbigshot

    mrbigshot Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Great comments where all seem to basicly agree ! Here an update :

     
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  8. bjl12

    bjl12 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    When you avoid a fighter who offers MORE money and CHOOSE an alleged lesser opponent for LESS money...its a duck. Wilder ducked Joshua. Canelo ducked Benavidez. PBC ducked Crawford.
     
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  9. vargasfan1985

    vargasfan1985 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Remember when Mosley went into the wood chipper not once, but twice, knowing he would lose to Winky Wright?

    I miss that kinda bravery.
     
  10. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Doesn't buy hypejobs Full Member

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    Easy - Wilder.

    Who was the worthier opponent for whom?
    Joshua had 3 belts, had beaten the man from the era before and had unified twice - Wilder was way behind on resume, accomplishments and championlike behaviour (seek unifications, defend against serious challengers, etc).

    Who had the more reasonable expectation of winning?
    Again, resumes would say obviously Joshua, boxing skills likewise - both could punch very hard, both could most certainly be stopped.
    I think it's reasonable to say it was a 60/40 on AJ's favour, quite probably wider.

    Did either have good reason to avoid it?
    Sure, Wilder had a good thing going with the WBC and they looked after him - money wasn't incredible, but he got decent reward for limited risk...
    Joshua risked having done the hard yards towards being the first undisputed in ages only to give someone else the glory, but that would've been the same whoever the opponent.
    There weren't bigger money or achievement fights available for either of them - but one had achieved far more and banked far more, and thereby shown a track record for not avoiding that, where the other had got his belt against a limited opponent and hidden from fights that would've been his biggest at the time.

    In every sense it's pretty clear Wilder fails the duck test much harder.
     
  11. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Every popular fighter gets hate. And crazy praise form their die hards.

    A big part of Usyk's criticism involves his poor activity and this fight coming up. Both are valid. But hey, if you want Usyk to fight another guy he already beat, more power to ya.
     
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  12. Kiwi Casual

    Kiwi Casual Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There is merit to what you say, however I don't think it's that clear cut. The promoters were the ones preventing that fight from going forward in my opinion, both trying to leverage A-side advantage and unwilling to come to a reasonable compromise.

    Personally, I think it was as close to a 50/50 fight as you could get. Wilder had tremendous power and heart but lacked a lot of fundamental skills, whereas AJ had better skills overall, but lacked the recovery powers needed to push through if he did get clipped badly. It's a shame we never got to see him go for undisputed.
     
  13. mrbigshot

    mrbigshot Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Nah ... the idea came out early 2018 and at that time wilder was regarded as very dangerous . Aj was also an incredibly dangerous boxer so i think both were unsure and cautious .

    It would be an undisputed fight so it was all or nothing for both in 2018 .

    After the fight failed wilder fought fury in 2018 so we cannot accuse him of being gunshy and have choosen an easier opponent .
    Aj fought povetkin in 2018 so it was more questionable .

    What ia true : aj has a deeper resume and could be the favourite at that fight .

    Absolutely not saying it was aj who ducked , i tend to agree it was a touch more wilder in 2018 but it was not an clear duck like other examples imho .
     
  14. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Doesn't buy hypejobs Full Member

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    I mean, there's probably something in that - equally, there was a very clear A-side right down the line... AJ had more belts, was more accomplished and a far, far bigger seller - that bit is pretty undeniable.

    I also think it's pretty clear Joshua's side wanted the fight and Wilder's was lukewarm at best...

    Wilder's history of ducking Whyte (never a secret) and generally extremely mediocre resume doesn't scream of a fighter and/or management team brimming with confidence in their ability to make and win difficult fights.

    Mmm, I don't agree, but you know that... Yes Wilder had heart but he also didn't have a great chin.
    When you then look at who they'd fought and beaten, they were proven at very different levels - Joshua fought and beat multiple top contenders, Wilder didn't... Dress up however you like, at the stage where it was "the" fight to make (ie: pre-Fury Wilder) there wasn't really any comparison.

    It's not realistically a 50/50.

    Regardless...
    Absolutely, it's a shame.

    Equally... Did either really deserve it?

    Joshua would've gone through and unified them all in turn and beaten all that was available at the time, so arguably yes... But I don't think boxing history is lacking anything significant having not had Joshua undisputed.

    Wilder absolutely no way he deserved to get it.
     
  15. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 Drama go, and don't come back Full Member

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    Tank Davies ducked an entire division
    That's impressive
     
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