Who is greater P4P Larry Holmes or Oscar De La Hoya?

Who could have been Holmes' Fraizier to Ali?

There was nobody.

 

I voted ODLH. It's really close. Most boxing publications have Holmes higher. I think the fact that ODLH was actually #1 is the reason why. Very few people have become p4p #1.

 

Holmes is easily in the top ten heavyweights of all time.
Holmes jab is considered one of the top jabs of any boxer ever.
Oscar is not p4p in the top ten in any of the weight classes he fought in.

 

I think it’s Holmes, and that’s bearing in mind that he is at a disadvantage in an argument like this by only fighting at heavyweight.

Oscar moved pretty quickly through weight classes in the first 5 years of his career, going from super featherweight to welterweight in that time. That counts a bit against him in my view as he never really established significant dominance in any one division. He was WBO titlist at 130, then WBO and IBF titlist at 135, then WBC titlist at 140 and at 147. He lost to Trinidad in the unification at 147 and then to Mosley shortly afterwards. At 154, he was probably pushing towards the upper limits of his effectiveness and at 160, he was over that limit. The wins over Ruelas at lightweight and Vargas at light-middle established some degree of dominance but he exited lightweight after the Ruelas bout and lost to Mosley (albeit controversially) at light-middle.

Holmes was a heavyweight titlist for 7 years uninterrupted and legitimately the lineal champ from 1980-1983. There were only two belts for much of his reign and unification fights were hard to come by. His win over Ali established his lineal title reign and he beat a majority of the best contenders around during the early 1980s.

He was 48-0 by the time he met Michael Spinks in 1985 and arguably had a better overall record than Rocky Marciano at that point, despite never being undisputed world champ. He has wins over Norton, Shavers(x2), Ali (albeit horribly old), Cooney in a huge fight, plus former and future titlists like Mike Weaver, Trevor Berbick, Leon Spinks, Tim Witherspoon and Bonecrusher Smith - it’s a title reign that probably looks a bit better in retrospect than it did at the time but when you see how almost every WBA heavyweight titlist in the first half of the 1980s barely managed to defend their strap once before losing it, Holmes’ consistency becomes more impressive.

As for people making the argument that Oscar was p4p no. 1 and Holmes wasn’t - Holmes fought at the same time as Duran, Leonard, Hagler and Hearns so does anyone think Oscar is greater than them? Simply put, Holmes fought in an era (the 80s) that was, heavyweight division aside, a stronger one than the one Oscar fought in so I don’t really think that argument holds much weight.

And, I actually think Holmes was the better fighter anyway. Oscar had better overall power in a p4p sense but Holmes hit pretty hard too. But boxing skill wise, I always thought Oscar was a bit stiff, almost robotic in his movements. I think Holmes had the better ring IQ and was the more effective boxer overall.

 

I voted for ODLH. I'm not keen on looking at HWs in the P4P sense unless they moved up.

 

Larry Holmes by a good margin.
Holmes had a tougher road to the top than Oscar who had his road paved after winning the Gold Medal. Larry had to fight whoever Don King told him to fight.
Holmes fought on short notice, he fought injured. His own promoter Don King didn't think he could fight. King was in love with Shavers and Merrit because they were punchers.
Larry Holmes just kept winning until he couldnt be overlooked anymore. The definition of champion should have a picture of Larry Holmes next to it. He was forged in fire.
Oscar DelaHoya was a superstar. His presence brought needed attention to the sport. He drew next level $. That is alot of pressure that comes with that. Oscar beat some good fighters, he had talent. To me he just lost in his prime too many times to measure up to Larry Holmes.

 

This

I think Holmes would beat DelaHoya in a P4P bout.

 

Nice job pretending Oscar’s greatness wasn’t based on jumping weight classes. Excellent.

 

He missed Thomas, Coetzee, Dokes, Tate, Witherspoon rematch, Williams rematch, and Page.

You also don’t get to rank above Oscar De La Hoya because your competition was limited.

 

It's ODLH for me and I'm Holmes fan.

ODLH Resume

Julio Cesar Chavez x2
Pernell Whitaker
Ike Quartey
Fernando Vargas
Hector Camacho
Jorge Paez
John John Molina
Rafael Ruelas
Wilfredo Rivera
Miguel Angel Gonzalez
Oba Carr
Arturo Gatti
Jesse James Leija
Yori Boy Campas
Ricardo Mayorga
Genaro Hernandez
Javier Castillejo

24 world title wins across Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Jr Welterweight, Welterweight, Jr Middleweight.


Larry Holmes Resume

Ken Norton
Earnie Shavers x2
Tim Witherspoon
Ray Mercer
Mike Weaver x2
Gerry Cooney
Muhammad Ali = Not even really counting this TBH
Trevor Berbick
Leon Spinks
Renaldo Snipes
Tex Cobb
Bonecrusher Smith x2
Carl Williams

20 world title wins at Heavyweight.

ODLH fought considerably better opposition and he has the advantage of P4P feats across multiple weightclasses aswell as edging Holmes in world title wins 24 to 20.

And lastly ODLH was P4P top 10 for 9 years and was rated number 1 in 2 of those years.

I don't know the P4P ratings in the 80s but i'd gather Holmes would've been P4P top 10 for 6 or 7 years ? and i doubt he was ever number 1 at any point.

 

And Oscar got jobbed against Tito and in the Mosley rematch. And beat Strum under questionable cards.

 

I didn't include Sturm because I consider that a robbery I don't see any case for ODLH winning that fight honestly.

I do agree that ODLH did no worse than get a draw vs Tito I had ODLH winning 7-5.

The Mosley rematch I had ODLH winning 8-4 I consider that a bad decision.

 

Just looking at these wins its really hard to make an argument for Holmes lol. Imagine thinking Cooney or Berbick are on the same level as Chavez, Whittaker, Gonzalez, Quartey etc