Can George Foreman survive 12 rounds with Oleksandr Usyk

Usyk stopped no one especially durable at cruiser either. besides Foreman is more durable than Joshua or Fury.

 

He's also way smaller than them and usually fought against way smaller guys than him. And still got floored twice.

 

People have a bad habit of assuming that the way an opponent lost is the only way they ever could have lost. Foreman lost to the rope-a-dope, Usyk can't rope-a-dope, therefore Foreman can't lose to Usyk... Even though Foreman lost to Jimmy Young lol, and struggled with someone completely different in Ron Lyle. If an out of prime Ali can whack him then a prime Usyk can too. Better stamina, better mobility, ATG ring IQ, ATG and very underrated chin, ATG defence, tricky Southpaw etc.

 

Ali was in tremendous shape for Ziare. He was 32 and arguably in the best shape of his life. By no means does 34 year old Usyk have better stamina than Ziare Ali. Ali was fighting guys like Norton and Frazier who were ferecious ring cutters and all time great body punchers. These guys would snap anyone’s stamina.

Usyk, at heavyweight is fighting guys who simply can’t maintain the work rate of smaller heavies, nor can they consistently body punch and drain his energy. So it gives the impression he has better stamina when he doesn’t.

Usyk does not have better mobility than Ali. Ali, at 32, is still significantly quicker of hand and foot than Usyk.


I have said it before: it is not impossible for Usyk to win. But Usyk fans have refused to listen to any counter arguments . Yes, Usyk has good defense but he gets hit plenty including by guys like Chisora , Mnchhnu etc. Foreman managed to hurt Young and just because Young survived and won that night, it doesn’t mean he could do it 10/10
Times.

Usyk isn’t quick enough to keep Foreman at bay. Nor is he a hard hitting slugger like Lyle to go
Toe to toe either Foreman. If he attempts to slug like Lyle, he gets stopped. I fail to see the similarity between Usyk and Lyle.

 

Smaller does not mean less durable. And the majority of the biggest punchers in heavyweight history have been between 210-225 lbs at their peak .

 

These days the overwhelming majority of big hitters at heavyweight are guys 240 plus

I don't know if the old rules apply anymore

 

So a BW is as durable as a HW?

 

This is silly. Size matters a lot more in the smaller divisions. There is a reason why we have a heavyweight division and not a super heavyweight division.


Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Usyk, Tyson are more durable than Wald, Fury, Joshua, and Dubois despite being smaller.


David Tua was like 220-225 peak and he had one of the best chins in heavyweight history. Marovic, at 213 lbs, took dynamite from Lewis and didn’t get knocked down while many much bigger men were knocked out cold with the same punches.

 

Durability isn’t something you judge in a vacuum it’s proven against the level of power a fighter is facing.

Most of the guys you listed like Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, and even George Foreman weren’t regularly taking shots from 250+ lb super heavyweights, so saying they’re more durable than modern SHWs is just speculation.

Fighters like David Tua or Zeljko Mavrovic actually did take punches from bigger heavyweights, so those are fair examples.

And it works both ways if you put Anthony Joshua or Daniel Dubois in older eras fighting 200–220 lb heavyweights, they’d likely look just as durable.

Even Foreman got hurt by Jimmy Young, so there’s no real basis to assume that fighters who were durable in their time would be just as durable if they were fighting modern SHWs.

 

Oh my god

you can’t let go of the Jimmy Young argument, can you?


The problem with your argument is that it assumes bigger heavyweights hit harder.

no they do not.

the vast majority of the biggest punchers in heavyweight history have weighed between 210-225 lbs at peak. Wilder, Shavers, Foreman, Tyson, Tua, Baer, Cooney, Morrison, etc etc. all weighing in that ball park


The repeated insistence that smaller heavyweights hit less hard is simply untrue.

Ali took clean shots off Shavers for christs sakes. A man who is a bigger puncher than most so called super heavyweight. He took shots of Foreman who Holyfield said was the hardest puncher he had ever faced.


Foreman, in his second career, went up vs Morrison, Briggs etc and they could not put a dent in him. Of course the standard excuse will be that he was bigger himself but that argument is simply not true.

Foreman, in the worst fight of his life was knocked down vs Young due to exhaustion. This means nothing. Fury was knocked down by a 207 lb Cunningham with a career 35 percent knockdown rate.

Fact is Ali took shots off Foreman and Shavers and those two are every big punchers as anything Joshua or Fury have faced.


It is a simple undeniable fact that Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Tyson have better chins than Joshu, Dubois or Fury. Ali would never get knocked down 3 times in one round by super heavyweight slayer Kevin Larena.

Holmes would never be stopped in a million years by an obese burrito eating champions like Andy Ruiz Jr.

 

Imagine seriously arguing that Daniel Dubois would be just as durable in prior eras as Ali, Holmes or Foreman.

the dude who went down 3 times vs Kevin Larena, who is a decent but nothing special puncher.

the dude who went down to an Usyk jab. Even Usyk himself shrugged and seemed surprised that Dubois went down to such a light shot.

Good lord.

Imagine arguing that Joshua would be just as durable as Holmes despite Joshua being stoped by Ruiz who is hardly some boy wonder power wise. Holmes wouldn’t get stopped by Ruiz if he was in his 40’s, let alone his 20’s

 

Theres no compelling evidence for Shavers hitting harder than modern super heavyweights. He was fighting smaller guys and doesn't have any common opponents with guys like Wlad, Joshua, Zhang etc. it's certainly possible they hit harder than him.

Gassiev has never been dropped. Does that give him a better chin than Ali etc

 

I have already debunked the narrative of bigger heavyweights being more durable

People who fought both Shavers and Foreman all said that Shavers either hit as hard or harder.

And we know how hard Foreman hit. Holyfield said no one hit him harder than Foreman and this is a man who fought Lewis and Tyson.

So yes, the evidence is pretty clear that Shavers had comparable power to modern super heavyweights.

People are grasping at straws here trying to falsely claim that bigger heavies hit harder and are more durable. The biggest hitting heavy of the last decade was 215 lbs or so at his peak.

As far as Gassiev is concerned, what big punchers has he faced? Which Foreman level puncher has he faced?

 

Comeback Foreman being the hardest puncher Holyfield fought simply isn't believable though.
He couldn't stop Morrison, Stewart, Savarese, etc. He didn't stop anyone of consequence outside Moorer. Tyson demolished guys that went the distance with Foreman multiple times. Jimmy Thunder bombed out a guy who went 12 with Foreman.

I would need a lot more evidence than Holyfield's word given he is so spectacularly lacking in impressive knockouts.

 

That had more to do with lack of speed though. Morrison was super careful, unlike his usual self, and that is why he went the distance.

Moorer paid a heavy price for standing infront of him. Holyfield tried to slug it out with him and was badly hurt but managed to win anyway through sheer grit.

Comeback Foreman’s ko record had less to do with power than it did with lack of speed and the fact that he was fighting 25 lbs above his best fighting weight.

Shannon Briggs also said Foreman was one of the 2 biggest hitters he faced. And this was an ancient almost 50 year old Foreman. I don’t see why Briggs would make it up.

comeback Foreman had the power to demolish every single heavyweight in the 90’s barring maybe Mercer and Holy. It’s just that most guys were smart enough to take advantage of how slow he was