Can George Foreman survive 12 rounds with Oleksandr Usyk

Generally speaking durability is helped by size.

Of course guys like Ali/Holmes/Uysk are expections to the rule.

 

Not really addressing my main point, you’re just listing big punchers from the past. Nobody is denying that guys like Earnie Shavers or George Foreman hit hard.

The issue is you’re using outliers to represent an entire era. The average heavyweight today is 240–260 lbs, better conditioned, and hitting with more mass behind their punches than the average 210–220 lb heavyweight from the past.

Physics doesn’t just stop applying to boxing power comes from mass and speed. Bigger fighters with comparable speed will generally generate more force, so acting like size has no effect on punching power just isn’t grounded in reality.

Ali is actually a perfect example of why your logic doesn’t hold. He took punches from Shavers, but he was also knocked down by Henry Cooper, a much smaller fighter. That just shows durability isn’t some fixed trait it depends on the context and what you’re being hit by.

And if we’re talking about raw power, some of the hardest punchers ever were super heavyweights like Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko, so the idea that modern SHWs don’t hit as hard doesn’t really hold up.

The core issue is this: durability is proven relative to the level of power you’re facing. Fighters like David Tua actually proved it against bigger heavyweights. Most of the names you listed didn’t.

So there’s no real basis to assume that fighters who were durable in their time would be just as durable if they were fighting modern SHWs and calling it an “undeniable fact” doesn’t make it one.

 

Better conditioned? No. Their condition is worse on average.

I have already shown that Foreman and Shavers had comparable power to super heavies like Lewis despite being smaller. So yes, it is a proven fact that Ali, Holmes etc proved their durability vs guys who were every bit as hard hitting as the larger heavies today.

big fighters do not generally have comparable speed. Look at Parker and Hrgovic. Both massive weight wise and yet they generally need to do cumulative damage to get stoppages. Whereas Wilder or Dubois are able to generate significantly more power despite being smaller.

Lewis and Wlad were massive hitters. But again they are not far ahead of Tua or Tyson power wise. They are comparable, maybe slightly harder hitting but not substantially harder hitting.


I have already given many counter examples. Holyfield is a great counter example. Yes, he was stopped once but anyone can get caught. Holyfield was in the 205-218 lb range in his prime and he proved more durable than most of these larger heavyweights.


I am not buying the arguments that super heavies hit harder on average. the more mass the modern guys have, the more speed they lose. Fury, Parker, Chisora and Hrgovic not being massive ko artists compared to Wilder, Wardley, Dubois, etc.

Parker is a great example of a man who put on weight to gain power and all it has done is slowed him down.

 

Joshua too. He always does better when he's lower.

 

If 240-250 heavyweights hit substantially harder than 210-225 ones, then 270 lbs plus heavies hit way harder than 240-50 lbs.

Hence, Zhang at 280 lbs is a much bigger puncher than the 245 lbs peak Lewis or the 242 lbs peak Wlad.

And Fury at 270 plus pounds is a substantially bigger puncher than the 239 lbs Wardley.

And the 260 lb Chisora has greater power than a peak 215 lb Wilder.

As I have said before, the law of diminishing returns applies. If bigger heavies hit harder on average, you would see that reflected in their overall ko rate. But it simply doesn’t.

 

You keep asserting things as “proven facts” without actually proving them. Saying Foreman or Shavers hit as hard as modern super heavyweights isn’t something you’ve demonstrated, it’s just an assumption based on a few examples.

You’re also constantly shifting the argument. This started as a durability claim, now it’s turned into whether bigger fighters hit harder, but even if power were equal, that still wouldn’t prove smaller heavyweights are more durable.

And your examples are selective. You bring up Wilder to argue smaller fighters hit harder, but ignore bigger punchers like Lennox Lewis or Wladimir Klitschko who contradict that.

The biggest issue is you haven’t established any consistent way to compare punching power across eras. Without that, you can’t claim Ali or Holmes faced the same level of power modern heavyweights do, so calling it an “undeniable fact” that they’re more durable doesn’t hold up it’s just your assumption.

 

And the fact that guys like Usyk and Holyfield had to put on weight to compete at heavyweight proves the opposite.

 

Well, that's not a fact. It's a fact that Holyfield and Usyk put weight on, but it's not a fact that they needed to in order to compete at HW in any sense other than literally weighing in as a heavyweight. Holyfield's best performances were around 205-210, and Usyk looked much better at CW than Heavyweight. I've thought his entire HW run that he's continuously made his life harder by being so heavy, and both were clearly slower, less athletic and agile as they put more weight on for small gains in strength, chin and power.

 

He would end up in a highlight reel of Foreman's body shots

 

I think they were probably better at crusierweight as you said but they likely both became stronger at heavyweight.

 

I think the fights show the weight was necessary. Compare Usyk’s fight with Joshua, where he had enough power to keep Joshua honest and even hurt him multiple times, to the Chisora fight, where he was closer to his cruiserweight size and had more trouble with someone who could walk through his punches and bully him on the inside because of his size.

Smaller heavyweights need enough power so bigger fighters respect them, otherwise they just come forward nonstop and bully them. That’s why both Evander Holyfield and Usyk bulked up to compete. And realistically, they understand what’s needed at that level better than any of us.

 

I think Usyk does better against 70s Foreman than comeback Foreman of the 90s. George came back and had better stamina and knew how to pace himself better. He lasted 12 rounds with a roided up Holyfield, I think he lasts 12 rounds with Usyk. He'll come up short but he goes the distance. Now 70s Foreman may not be able to keep the pace. Usyk wins the counter punch game all night.

 

I have already shown based on the actual testimony of fighters like Holyfield and Briggs that Foreman hit every bit as hard as Lewis.


You have not established that modern bigger heavyweights hit harder. You have provided zero such evidence.

Again, is Zhang a much bigger puncher than Lewis or Wlad because he is 35 lbs heavier?

So yes, I can reasonably claim that Ali and Holmes faced equally good punchers.


You are arguing that there is no way to compare power across eras and yet you are also simultaneously claim in larger heavyweights hit harder on average.


A close examination of larger heavyweights today shows it’s simply not true. The likes of Fury, Parker, Hrgovic and Chisora are not bigger punchers than the recent heavyweights below them in weight such as Wardley, Wilder, Dubois etc.

Again if heavyweights hit harder because they are 240-260 lbs, then that also means heavyweights hit harder because they are 270-290 lbs. therefore, the likes of Joyce, Zhang, Fury etc hit significantly harder than the 240-250 lbs heavyweights.

 

I’ll take Holyfield’s account of the fighters HE fought over your ignorant drivel. Every. Day. Of. The. Week.