Who's historically greater at HW: Liston or Usyk?

Why not Breidis too

 

The versions of Fury, AJ and Dubois that Usyk fought would dominate Sonny’s pre-Ali opponents, can’t say the same about Sonny’s best 3 wins dominating Usyk’s heavyweight opponents.

 

Liston destroyed Williams x 2, Patterson x 2 and Zora Folley in less than ten rounds.
I’d give Patterson a decent chance of beating Usyk.
Liston is no stiff Joshua.

 

No they wouldn’t, for a start none of them are that great.
Fury was post binges and out of shape, AJ was gunshy, Dubois is Dubois
Aside from Marty Marshall who he later beat by KO Liston only lost to prime Ali in his prime. He beat solid contenders who would have a great chance of winning a belt in Usyk’s era. Not only beat them but wiped the canvas with them.
Even in his last fight he beat Wepner easier than Ali did.
Usyk wouldn’t get past Listons jab, and no way does he take out Listons best opposition easier than Liston did.
In a perfect world for Usyk he might beat them all by decision if the stars align repeatedly, Liston destroyed them in a few rounds.

 

Liston and Foreman sparring is more historically significant, something that makes you go wow and start wondering how it went down

 

I agree. The whole opponent weight comparison argument is baffling. Usyk’s cruiserweight opponents were bigger than most of Louis’s opposition too—who, aside from a few obvious outliers, were even smaller than Liston’s. By that logic, should Usyk be ranked above Louis as well?

 

The size of Usyks cruiserweight opponents is a good check but heavyweight was always open weight guys like Aj and Fury wouldn't have been excluded back then and they'd be much skinnier due to the environment. Gerard Zech was 6'5, 225 so he still fought the occasional big man. Liston didn’t show a trend of struggling against the few bigger men he faced. But Liston never beat anyone as good as Fury so thats another point for Usyk.

If Floyd Patterson was at least 215 he'd be a legit heavyweight in my eyes, but reality was really a huge light heavyweight, he was smaller than Spinks and no bigger than Briedis. Although with modern nutrition and steroids Patterson would probably be 6'2, 230, it's all hypothetical i guess

 

This poll shouldn't be this close. Liston's supporters are just crazy.

 

Y'all Usyk fans are insane.

 

As I noted in my post, it doesn't have to, though. Take any head to head out of it, and it's still an either-way thing with comparative advantage.

LISTON
-Much more extensive heavyweight career with more contenders beaten.
- Narrative of being a guy people were afraid of...Foreman troubled in sparring, etc.

USYK
- Five times as many heavyweight title defenses and counting
- Undefeated thus far
- More victories over historically important fighters, and even heavyweight fighters.
- Won the heavyweight championship on his second heavyweight fight (actually a few early ones were heavy to, but...)

I pick Usyk, but I'm really not down on anyone who wants to pick Sonny. After Ali and Louis, who are basically impeccable, these things become subjective very fast.

 

Usyk fought these guys when they were blown to bits.
If Ali vs Frazier 1, messed Frazier up, imagine what 3 fights with fighters heavier with several knockdowns does to a fighter?
Joshua had been knocked out by Ruiz and Dubois wasn't really all that great.

Sonny easily

 

When Liston beat Patterson the first time, Patterson has already been beaten by Maxim, stopped by Johanson who knocked him down seven times, knocked down twice by Johansson in their third fight, dropped by Rademacher and Royer-Crecy, and was on his 41st fight overall.

Pretty sure Floyd was in worst condition than Joshua or Fury.

 

And Fury's coke addiction?

 

Im not saying Fury was in great shape, but Patterson soaked up enormous amounts of punishment. You point, and I am quoting you, is that Usyk's opponents were "blown to bits." Patterson was blown into more and smaller bits.