Who Does The Best Against Prime Ali? (Poll Included)

Thank you. My goodness you took some guiding, but you managed to get there in the end.

I must confess, I genuinely don't know if:

1. You understood what Markus was asking when you initially responded to him, but just didn't realise Ali had beaten opponents taller than him with longer reaches, and when that was pointed out to you, you back tracked for fear of having that ignorance exposed; OR,

2. If you began our exchange in this thread in good faith, because you lack emotional intelligence to such an extent, that despite repeating your statement back to you, verbatim, in the form of a question, and then adding "LOL", you initially truly didn’t realise that Markus was mocking your statement and genuinely assumed that by someone" he was referring to Wlad.

I appreciate you'll probably receive my uncertainty in this regard as an insult rather than a compliment, but either way, I am accustomed to being able to read people, so it genuinely is a notable curiosity to me that I'm unsure which of the above two possibilities applies. Don't worry, I know better than to expect you to satisfy that curiosity.

 

I wasn't wrong with my final paragraph, was I John?

 

He doesn't need a large punch selection to dictate the space. What dictates is if Wlad is in range to land his punches while Ali isn't which is exactly what his jab is for hence why I said it would be hard for Ali to dictate the space against someone longer and taller with a great jab. Having a greater punch selection doesn't matter if you can't get into range to use it. And Ali got hit much more despite his speed and reflexes so whats your point? Wlad was much better at making sure he wouldn't get hit then Ali was. He couldn't afford to be hit because of his chin.

Feints only matter if you’re in a position to actually capitalize on them. If Ali isn’t consistently getting into range, they’re not going to translate into effective offense. That’s the issue here, how is he landing cleanly if Wladimir Klitschko is controlling the distance and not letting him set his feet? The idea that he’s just going to slip and counter consistently doesn’t really line up either. Ali relied heavily on reflexes and still got hit by good jabs, so against someone with greater reach and better distance control, that becomes even more difficult. And the Williamson example isn’t really representative of the version of Wlad we’re talking about. Later in his career he became far more cautious, committed less, and focused on minimizing risk. That’s why someone like David Haye, who was a bigger puncher than Williamson, struggled to get anything going. Wlad simply didn’t put himself in positions where he could be countered. So it’s not that Ali can’t slip or land at all it’s that doing it consistently against a style built around denying those opportunities is a completely different challenge.

I’m not saying David Haye is on Ali’s level, but stylistically and talent wise he's closer to Ali then anyone Ali faced is close to Wlad. And Wlad didn’t have much difficulty controlling that style he dictated range, limited output, and won comfortably. Being faster or having more variety doesn’t automatically change that if the same underlying problem remains.

Wlad also wasn’t some robotic pressure fighter just walking forward. He was a boxer-puncher who maintained range very carefully and made sure his opponent wasn’t in position to land cleanly. That’s a completely different dynamic to fighters like Ernie Terrell and Joe Bugner, who didn’t control distance in the same way, which is why Ali could outbox them.

Your assumption here is that movement and feints will disrupt Wlad’s entire style, but that hasn’t really been shown consistently. And Ali has shown that a strong, consistent jab can trouble him, so facing someone who can maintain a range where Ali struggles to land while still being able to hit him is always going to be a difficult matchup and so far you haven't shown anything to suggest he would be able to solve this problem besides movements and feints which have not been shown as a solution to Wlad's style.

 

You seem a lot more interested in analyzing me than discussing the fight. If you want to keep dissecting every word I say, go ahead, but I’m not really interested in that, nor is this the place for your weird obsession.

If you actually have something to say about Wlad vs Ali, then say it. Otherwise, this isn’t really a discussion it’s just you taking shots over some dumb beef you should have let go of by now.

I know I have, because nitpicking every small thing someone says is just petty nonsense. So for the sake of healthy forum discussion, let’s focus on good faith debate instead of petty drama.

 

He had already dominated Chris Byrd pre Steward. He improved but it was morso his approach. Stylistically he looked the same against Haye as he did against Williamson, especially with that heavy jab and retreating away. What do you think he did better ?

 

Nah, it's just you're the sort of poster who should be held to account for what they post, when they post nonsense, and exposed as someone who says they meant something different to what they posted, when called out on said nonsense.

That said, I've adequately made my points in those regards and agree our exchange has already taken up too much of the discussion, so I'll leave you alone now.

 

Didn't overcommit which is what got him knocked down against Williamson. His jab and distance control also improved substantially since then.

 

Ok I agree the approach was formed but it was only the first few months in with Steward. He had started to adapt his style though.

I think he mastered clinching and distance control better mostly as well as defensively. But you say you agree he improved anyway so that's fine.

I haven't seen that fight in a couple years tbf from memory Wlad was still outboxing Williamson outside the flash KD round but obviously a KD matters. Recently seen that fight used against Wlad a few times so maybe it was a bit closer than I recall.

 

Why are you the arbiter of what deserves scrutiny? Plenty of people post worse takes, yet you seem to single me out over minor points usually things that weren’t perfectly articulated or that you’ve taken out of context.

English isn’t my first language, so yeah, sometimes my phrasing won’t be perfect but that’s very different from saying something “brainless.”

You’ve already labeled me a “troll” and said you wouldn’t engage, yet you keep coming back to nitpick small details. At that point it just feels like you’re more interested in picking at wording than actually discussing the topic.

It gets tedious having to keep clarifying the same things just because they don’t meet some standard you’ve set. If you want to engage with the argument, I’m fine with that otherwise I don't see the point of this.

 

I didn’t realise that English wasn't your first language. That may explain a lot. I'll bear it in mind moving forwards.

 

It's quite obvious to anyone with a brain that he was talking about Wlad.
themaster458 is right, you're just grasping onto straws and have no proper arguments.

 

Why would Wlad do that ?!
He'll just let Ali run in circles like an idiot. If he gets close, Wlad tags him since he has the longer reach.

No they won't. Ali is a weak puncher, thus Wlad has no reason to fear him and be gunshy.

Wlad won't gas out since he doesn't waste energy. And why should it be a 15 rounder ?!
It will be 12, and even that is way too much IMO. The ideal fight should be 5 rounds only and no winning on points, only KO's count.

 

So you think for most of the fight Wlad will be in range to land his punches but Ali wouldn't ? Beyond size why would you think that ? Ali will be the one using more in and out movement, bouncing on his toes and he moves his head and upper body way more than Wladimir. Ali got hit more against crouching pressure fighters. If Ali was stylistically vulnerable to taller jabbers with good footwork he'd have struggled a lot more with Bugner. That's not the best style to beat Ali with. Tyson and Usyk are bigger challenges. No matter how difficult you think Wlad would be for Ali they would be more difficult. They present a bigger puzzle, thats just the way it is.

Why can't he ? Wlad got hit plenty in his career by much lesser fighters. But even so, Ali has the speed, footwork and accuracy to get in and out of range and land a power shot or the jab before slipping the singular power punches Wlad will after lowering his workrate

There it is again. You say i haven't shown anything to solve the problem, i actually have. You say Ali could outbox them just because they didn't fight like Klitschko, ignoring everything i and everyone else tells you and then you just reapeat the same stuff over and over, falling back on the presumption that Ali can’t outland and out maneuver someone who is taller with a longer reach. You don't actually address the arguments, you just say "that won't work Wlad will just step out of range he's too big and tall bro"

You assumed way before that Ali can't outbox any taller talented heavyweights when he's done it. It is hilarious stuff

Norton fights nothing like Wlad yet you take issue with me telling you why Haye didn't attempt to fight like Ali, they had a few similarities but Haye is a natural counter punches and less of an outboxer, has less footspeed, less shifting with the feet and doesnt have as good of a jab and couldn't measure range as well. Nortons style is closer to Holyfields than it is to Klitschkos lol. Norton was also a body puncher, actually threw punches in bunches and moves his head coming forwards.

Wlad was a skilled robot. Coming forward mechanically, popping the stiff jab, and then lining up the 1-2, taking a step back when someone is throwing hands, clinch, throw the occasional left hook if the opponent is standing still, repeat. Feints and awkward movement has shut him down before, because he's a safety first stiff. He would not be a harder fight for Ali than Tyson and Usyk

 

Fury is also a weak puncher couldn't put a dent in Ngannou when joshua blew him out in 2 rounds

Why does it have to be 12 ? Are you making the rules ? Lol wtf

Yes he will let Ali run in circles, land his jabs, outspeed and out maneuver him, and who knows, Klitschko may let Ali may drop him like Williamson did

 

You were ruthlessly correct the whole way mate. I was actually going to thrust Terrell forward myself before you did but didn't want to converse lol