Who Does The Best Against Prime Ali? (Poll Included)

Your post literally made me laugh out loud. Thank you for making my day.

 

No, it wasn't.

That makes two people in the world that took it the other way. No doubt NoNeck will be the third.

 

Because Wlad has both the height and reach advantage, and if the fight is being kept at long range, that naturally favors him. When they’re both on the outside, he’s in range to land his jab while Ali isn’t, that’s the whole point of his style.

Bugner isn’t really comparable. He didn’t control range or impose his jab he was reactive and allowed Ali to dictate the fight. Wladimir Klitschko does the opposite: he controls distance and limits what his opponent can do.

And we’ve seen how difficult that kind of long-range control can be at a high level. Thomas Hearns was able to give Sugar Ray Leonard serious problems for most of their fight just by controlling range with his jab and abusing his reach advantage despite Leonard attempt to use movement against it.

That’s why I see it differently from guys like Tyson or Usyk. They bring more variety, but they don’t rely on that same kind of range control. Wlad’s style is specifically built to keep the fight at a distance where would Ali struggles to apply consistent offense if he can't even get into range to do so. Movement and feints don’t automatically solve that problem if he’s constantly being kept at the end of the jab and reset and you have yet to show how he would solve that besides muh footwork and muh feints..

Ali got hit by good jabs as well, so I don’t see why he suddenly avoids everything Wlad throws. And the main issue still isn’t being addressed how exactly is he overcoming Wlad distance control consistently? Saying “he’ll just get in and out” isn’t really an explanation, it’s just an assumption. What specifically is stopping Wlad from resetting the distance with the jab and keeping the fight at his preferred range? That’s what his entire style is built around. Right now it just feels like you’re assuming Ali’s footwork and feints will bridge the gap without explaining the mechanics of how that actually happens over rounds. If anything, the simpler explanation is that the fighter whose style is built around controlling distance and limiting exchanges is going to be able to enforce that more consistently, rather than assuming the other fighter can repeatedly overcome it without disruption.

You still haven’t shown how Ali’s footwork actually bridges the gap against Wladimir Klitschko’s range advantage. Just saying “footwork and speed” isn’t really an explanation of how he consistently gets into position to land without being reset. You also keep saying feints and awkward movement have shut Wlad down, but where is that shown against a prime version of him? He handled David Haye comfortably, and the only clear example you can point to is Tyson Fury—who had comparable size and reach, which changes that dynamic completely. Ali doesn’t have that advantage. So there isn’t really a concrete example of someone with Ali’s physical profile using that style to consistently trouble Wlad. On the other hand, we’ve seen Ali have issues at times with strong, consistent jabs. That’s the difference I’m pointing to how styles have actually interacted, while your argument still assumes Ali’s movement and feints will overcome a style built around controlling distance without showing how that happens consistently over rounds.

I think we’re going in circles at this point.

My position hasn’t really changed, Wlad's style is built around controlling distance and limiting exchanges, and I don’t see how Ali consistently overcomes that just through movement and feints. You’ve said those things would disrupt Wlad, but there still hasn’t been a clear explanation of how that actually translates into Ali consistently getting into range and maintaining offense without being reset. So unless you can show how that works in practice over rounds, we’re basically repeating the same points.

 

Guys just state who would give Ali the most trouble make your case and move one. Drop all the childishness.

 

By catching Wlad with jabs (yes Ali can do that Wlad has had problems with a lesser guy in Williamson due to movement), not being a stationary target for Wlads devastators by dancing for the whole time and using angles and more pivots, using the basic pendulum step and faking a bunch of punches to reduce Wlads punch output and learn his rhythm. Wlad was very vulnerable to feints even you seem to admit this but still suggest it doesn't matter because you think Ali can't land on him. Wladimir resetting the distance is him taking a step back and spamming size, thats very effective, but he doesn't reset Ali, he just gets out of range, Ali wouldn't typically have to lunge forward anyway, he had both great timing and quick shots

Cmon bro Hearns is technically on a different planet to Wlad and he had a bigger ape index i think, also Leonard beat him. Wladimir has an 81 inch wingspan and is 6'6. Ali has a 78 inch wingspan and is 6'3. If Ali had the dimensions of Eddie Machen there would be nothing he could do against Klitschko, but he's much bigger than that and better than anyone Klitschko beat even if the reverse is true. Klitschko was clearly bigger than Haye, he didn't dwarf Haye.

Since Ali is much faster with his hands and feet, utilizes more upper body movement and lateral movement, would probably slow down Wlads workrate with all his misleads and mess with his timing, this will muddy the waters on who will actually be in range to land punches for most of the fight. I do not see it as simple as you do. Klitschkos best bet would actually be to fight Ali on the backfoot and force Ali on his front foot, thats where he would actually limit Ali, but we know Klitschko doesn't approach movers that way. He always walks them down behind his jab, almost never throws in combinations, is methodical, doesn't move his head much, doesn't have bodypunching in his arsenal, can have suspect stamina if he's forced to work harder and becomes even more cautious when his opponents feint a lot. This is damn near best case scenario for Ali outside of Klitschkos size how do you not see it. He is not invincible to smaller heavyweights. No matter how difficult you think Klitschko would be, Tyson and Usyk have more to offer and are more durable. They would be harder challenges for a peak Ali to overcome

 

I like how you’re dismissing the David Haye fight but relying on the Williamson example, which was an earlier, less developed version of Wlad. That’s not really consistent. You also keep saying he’s vulnerable to feints, but there aren’t clear examples of that being a consistent issue against a prime Wlad especially against fighters that are similar size as Ali. And the main issue still isn’t being addressed. If Wlad resets the distance even, if it’s just a step back, we’re back at long range, where he’s in position to land and Ali isn’t. So how does that actually solve the problem? If the fight keeps resetting to a range that favors Wlad, how is Ali consistently building offense from there?

You’re still listing traits, not explaining the mechanism. Faster hands, better feet, feints, and movement all sound good, but how do they consistently overcome Wlad’s range control over rounds? What’s the actual sequence here? How does Ali repeatedly get into position to land, keep Wlad from resetting the distance, and build enough offense to win rounds? That’s the part I still don’t see explained.

You’re explaining what Ali does well, but not how that actually translates into consistently overcoming Wlad’s style of distance control. How does Ali consistently operate at his preferred range against someone whose entire style is built around denying that?

 

When faced with an extraordinarily strong or powerful opponent, Ali would resort to mind games. He would try to embarrass or confuse, make him a laughingstock, make him look clumsy or hesitant, test his patience or take him into strange territory of some kind. He had a great imagination for that sort of thing.

 

Everytime Wlad takes a step back he's in range to land punches but Ali isn't ? What kind of BS is this. Wlad is not a counter puncher. He takes a step back, then comes forward a but to get back into range. Both of them will be at jabbing range because even Haye landed, Wlads 3 inch reach advantage is balanced by Alis superior handspeed and more dynamic footwork

Whats not consistent is using Haye as a primary example then dismissing mentions of Ali beating Bugner and Terrell. You see Haye as an Ali analog but Williamson was actually fighting more like Ali than Haye was ! Haye is a counter puncher and wasn't trying to outbox Klitschko and make him reset over and over while flicking out the stick, he was waiting for opportunities, looking for positions to counter from, but you can't see this.

The mechanism ? What mechanism is Wlad going to use to dominate Ali with ? lol. How does Wlads range control consistently overcome the combination of Alis superior footwork, handspeed and Alis own mastery of range, and angles ? I keep telling you how he can get around Wladimirs style but you don't listen. You've proven this by claiming Ali can't outbox someone who is taller with a longer reach, it's already your presumption that Ali has no routes to victory against Wlad so you just shoot down every single person who disagrees and states why. This is a symptom of overrating one fighters abilities and then dismissing the other fighters abilities. Rrgardless of my opinion I still say Wlad has a good chance here because I am aware of how efficient he was, you aren't aware of how skilled and awkward Ali is which is why you give Ali no chance, this is what it boils down to. To suggest Wlad wouldn't allow Ali to have any success at all is just laughable, but you said that. You are literally saying Ali wouldn't win a round against Klitschko lol

You're merely assuming Ali can't land on him no matter what he does, so when i do explain the "mechanism" all you have to say in return is "that won't work Wlad will just reset the distance and Ali can't land anything because he's smaller" this is complete nonesense. When you actually watch Klitschko Haye, Haye landed plenty of jabs but Wlad took away his right hand and didn't give him any opportunities to counter punch by sticking a jab in his face. Even then Haye still landed occasional right hands

Wlad is very vulnerable to feints because he's so cautious and straightforward. This will give Ali more opportunities to outwork Wladimir. He can use feints to make Klitschko react more, find patterns and exploit openings on Klitschko when Waldo is looking for the stiff jab and he won't be throwing haymaker right hands like Haye. He can keep moving laterally or just move his head like usual to avoid the real danger Klitschko doesn't throw the right hand or the left hook against moving targets, he just methodically creeps forward with his jab and Ali can utilize more pivots and angles to slip the jab and the right hand consistently and stay in the fight on the cards. Klitschko stepping back doesn't score points btw, just as Ali moving doesn't score points but it can be effective. Just as you claim Klitschko resetting will take away all of Alis tools, i can easily say Ali constantly shifting will take Wlad out his game and shut him down because it's happened.

Wlad doesn't counter punch, he doesn't throw combinations besides the 1-2 against stationary targets, doesn't body punch at all, only has 3 punches in his arsenal, has a lower workrate focused on efficiency and could be susceptible if this fight is 15 rounds.

 

One of the differences between Haye and Ali is that Haye had been ko’d early in his career. This made him more cautious vs a guy like Wlad. Ali didn’t have that issue.

Ali certainly has the footspeed to slip inside and land combos . I mean a fighter as limited as Sam Peter knocked Wlad down. Peter was a bigger puncher than Ali but much much slower. Peter as a camel compared to Ali. He also had a 77 inch reach to Ali’s 78 inches

I was one of the first to admit that Wlad is a hard puzzle for Ali to solve. But this idea that Ali couldn’t land on Wlad when both Peter and Sanders did is absurd. Ali has quicker hands than anything Wlad has seen and certainly quicker feet. And unlike Haye, he isn’t going to fight to survive. Not his style.

Ali will certainly land on Wlad and land more on him than anything he faced pre Joshua. Is Wlad a hard match up? Sure. Could Wlad win? Possibly, but the idea that it would be easy and that Ali couldn’t land on him is absurd.

 

Wlad improved after the first Peter fight. In the rematch, Sam couldn't do anything to him.

 

and Peter regressed quite badly by second fight

 

Not quite. He had a good run from his Vitali loss to Wlad rematch. Said was in the best shape of his life too, very motivated.

 

He lost to Vitali, then to Chambers, then had a couple of no name wins and then had 1 decent win. He may have said he was in his best shape but the fact that he did nothing post Wlad 2 kind of disproves it.


Wlad had almost 50 pro fights before the Peter fight. The argument he was improving is something I am skeptical off. Even if this was true, we can make the same excuses for almost any fighter.

the fact that a fighter as slow as Peter landed on Wlad , a veteran of almost 50 fight, disproves the idea that a much quicker Ali wouldn’t be able to land. The point I was making was that Peter was Butterbwan speed compared to Ali.

 

Wlad improved and Peter declined both can be true.

 

Well, I never argued that Ali wouldn't be able to land on Wlad. I just pointed out that Wlad improved from the first Peter fight. Peter might have also declined (both can be true), but it wasn't how Peter's camp saw it.

"I have been with Sam now since last May. The dedication has been the big difference I have seen in Sam," Sanchez said. "I have been able to keep him in the gym six or seven days a week. We have been in camp for eight weeks and we are looking forward to a great heavyweight fight because I think he has put in the work this time. I think in the past he has allowed outside sources to distract him and he had a lack of commitment, but I think his time, to me, it has changed."

With Sanchez in his corner, Peter has won four fights in a row -- albeit against soft opposition -- all by knockout. But he's been in top condition each time, including for a second-round destruction of Nagy Aguilera in March in a title eliminator that put him in position behind Povetkin.

Peter is confident and excited for his second opportunity against Klitschko.

"I have a lot to prove," Peter said. "I have a chance to redeem myself from the 2005 fight. It is going to be a great fight. I am getting another chance to prove that I am the best heavyweight champion in all. The loss was a bad mistake. This time I am going to prove that I can become a champion again. For sure, on Sept. 11 in Germany it is going to be a great fight. I don't have much to say because I know that my gloves will speak for me in the ring."

The loss to Chambers was rock bottom for Peter. He went into the fight unhappy with his promotional situation with Dino Duva and his partner, Don King. Obviously, Peter hadn't trained very hard based on his conditioning.

"Everything was frustrating at that time," Peter said. "I had lost the championship and the promotion was so bad. I am OK now and everything is straight up. I have the best promoter in the world and the best coach in the world. I have the best manager in the world and I am going to be the best."

Sanchez brought him to the isolation of the mountains of Big Bear, Calif., to train, and Peter, who usually trains near his home in Las Vegas, took to the new routine.

"Everything in Big Bear is great. It's a great place to train. It's very peaceful," Peter said. "I didn't know about Big Bear for all these years, but it is a great place to train. Abel brought me up here and he doesn't take my nonsense. He doesn't take no for an answer. He wants to see me working. I am happy about being here."

Next week, Peter will be in Germany, where his only experience was the loss to Vitali Klitschko. But this time, Peter says he's in a better frame of mind and will be looking to finish what he started with the three knockdowns against Wladimir five years ago.

"On Sept. 11, he will be down and will not stand up again," Peter said. "The victory and my judges I have in my right hand, and the judge is my left hook. There will not be a decision this time around. This time he will not get up from my left hook. I am ready and I am prepared and I will not need a referee or a judge."