Who's historically greater at HW: Liston or Usyk?

We don't know that. Usyk would be a stylistic nightmare for Ali.

 

Disagree but ok, we don’t know that Sonny wouldn’t KO AJ and Fury in a few rounds

 

We don’t know that Marty Marshall wouldn’t split a series with Usyk…
All we have is what we have, and really, you have to have Fury and Aj very high up historically to have Usyk ahead of Liston.

 

Looking at the guys he really beat - hard to think that way. At least not Fury. He might have KOed AJ, due to his chin. But he never fought anybody this big.

 

They are higher than everyone Sonny beat, except for Floyd.

 

I think it wouldn’t matter so much with his reach, he had a longer reach than AJ and basically the same as Fury but with a miles better jab than either of them.

 

Yes, maybe.
But Liston does have Floyd, and prime and underrated Williams, Machen, Folley and others.
He destroyed all of them too.

If someone has half a dozen professional fights at heavyweight but beats say, Prime Mike Tyson and Prime Lennox twice and stays undefeated? You might put them above Liston.
Past his prime Fury and a bit past his prime AJ? No.

 

Liston was actually smaller than Usyk. Sonny was 6'1" 220 at his best.

Cleveland Williams 2x
Patterson 2x (two first round KO's, no other fighter beat Floyd that easily)
Folley
Machen

IMO - 2 dives versus Ali

The fighter's Sonny beat were as good or better boxers than Usyk's best wins at HW which are:

Fury 2x
AJ 2x
Dubois 2x

That said, I think each man can beat the other's opponents as easily.

Usyk will go down as the greater of the two for being undisputed in two weight classes and possibly undefeated.

 

Liston cleaned up the heavyweight division in early sixties. He beat who was there and there were some good fighters. Even if you throw out Usyk's Cruiser opposition he beat 4 heavyweights that very likely would have all defeated Liston.

 

You say some stupid sh** sometimes you know that, right?

 

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I need to see the Verhoeven fight before I make my decision, thank you.

 

Sonny was a QUITTER! In the 2 biggest fights of his life...he s**t himself in front of the whole world! He beat "china chinned" Floyd Patterson twice...1962 and 1963...both in the first round! Big deal!