Who Does The Best Against Prime Ali? (Poll Included)

This content is protected

Round 3 Williamson got hit with a right hand from Klitschko and then started using more Lateral movement and despite being stiff and upright compared to to Ali, he reduced Klitschkos output with the jab because it was harder for Klitschko to get into position to land an accurate jab and Ali can step into his jab and outland the less mobile Klitschko and land straight right hands as Wlad is momentarily static or when they're momentarily at mid range before moving out of range of Klitschkos punches. You are assuming he cannot outjab Klitschko because he's smaller. Norton also does not fight like Klitschko, he's not upright like Wlad and has a higher workrate, moves his head more nd he's a body puncher who can counter punch. Norton can cut the ring better than him too. David Haye didn't move around as much, wasn't nearly as active with his feet and didn't change levels as much as prime Ali. Both are bad example to use.

Wlad isn't building sustained offense if Ali is constantly moving because Klitschko can't cut the ring, he'd nutralize Wlads offense if anything. Ali would be too dynamic with his footwork and feints on top of moving around too much for him to accurately land the jab. His workrate would be reduced by feints and he would have to fight at a higher pace than normal if he wants to outland Ali. Ali can catch him with punches consistently when he's moving out of range because Klitschko can be caught or even knocked out by lesser fighters.

Yes he failed his attempt at dictating and enforcing range against a prime Ali, as would the limited Wlad.

Ali wouldn't have less opportunity to work Wlad isn't shutting down his workrate, at best he would keep Ali from most of landing his power punches but the reverse is true, Wlad would have less opportunity to work being forced to chase Ali around the ring and finding a position to throw his punches. Ali wouldn't be more susceptible to getting his rhythm disrupted Klitschkos rhythm would get disrupted by feints and constant circling, Wlad wouldn't consistently get into position to throw the jab or the 1-2 let alone land it accurately against someone as agile as Ali and Wlad is not a body puncher so Ali doesn't have to worry about any of that. He can outland Klitschko by stepping into his jab or occasional land counters and right hands because far more limited opposition than Ali have done it.

Me mentioning that Wlad got knocked out is to highlight is mediocre stamina which would show up over 15 rounds

Wlad has shown vulnerability to fighters who can disrupt his rhythm with eradic movement or constant lateral movement like against Fury and Williamson and Ali has superior stamina, speed, higher workrate, active footwork, level changes and a better chin. Norton disrupted Alis rhythm while cutting the ring which gave him the opportunity to jab with Ali often but also him going to the body and having a higher workrate than Klitschko also helped him. Ali won the rematch by using the ring more btw. I have already explained how their styles interact. You're not addressing how Klitschko actually lands consistently against someone this agile in constant motion like Ali. Historically Ali has never struggled with a style that have traits of Klitschkos but Wlad has struggled with styles that mainly implement technical tactics that Ali used.

 

This is the first time you’ve actually laid out a mechanism, but it still comes down to one assumption, that Ali’s movement stops Wlad from establishing control in the first place. The issue is you’ve explained how Ali gets success in spots, but not how that turns into consistent control over rounds.

Movement by itself doesn’t do that. Wlad doesn’t need to chase or set his feet to use the jab he uses it to track distance and re-establish range. So Ali circling doesn’t automatically neutralize it, it just means he has to keep re-entering that range over and over.

You’re describing how Ali can get in and land at times, but not why Wlad can’t keep resetting the fight and forcing those exchanges to stay short. That’s the difference, disruption isn’t the same as control, and you haven’t shown how that actually prevents Wlad from dictating the range over rounds.

 

Wlads workrate typically goes down against moving targets because he likes to set his feet and position himself to land his stiff jab, he doesn't use a flicker jab like Ali and Ali already typically has a higher workrate than him and better stamina. Wlad doesn't land the jab against very mobile targets as far as I've seen or go to the body

Klitschko can reset the range to avoid punches and try to reengage but he can still be caught in the act or caught at mid range. Also even if Wlad has a small reach advantage how is he going to reset the range in his favor to make a pathway for power punches and the stiff jab if Ali is constantly circling, moving his upper body in a herky jerky style and feinting to disrupt his rhythm ? Shorter fighters typically find punches from fighters punching down to be easier to evade because it gets telegraphed more and longer arms take longer to find their target. So regardless of attempting to outland Wladimir, Ali would find punches from Wlad easier to evade than typical boxer punchers or short pressure fighters because he doesn't counter punch, go to the body and only throws 1 punch at a time unless the fighter is a plodder let alone against a moving target who is constantly changing levels and using a bunch of foot feints and upper body motion. He is faster more durable, awkward and agile than anyone Wlad has ever beaten

The end result is Wladimir getting outboxed in a close fight

 

People act like Ali was untoucheable which is far from the truth. There's a world of difference between getting lit up by Norton or Frazier and a guy like Wlad.

Classic: Norton and Frazier hit harder than Wlad!

 

He's talking about pre exile Ali.

 

I am someone who has repeatedly said Wlad is a very very hard style match for Ali.

that being said, Frazier and Norton are completely different. Those two were excellent ring cutters, were much better body punchers than Wlad and much better at maintaining that extraordinary pace. Sure, neither Frazier nor Norton hit as hard as WLad but they didn’t bother Ali due to power. They bothered him due to ring cutting and relentless work rate and body punching.

Wlad is an upright fighter. He isn’t an all time great body punchers. He certainly can’t work the body with that kind of consistency without leaving himself open.

Wlad is tough for Ali for other reasons- reach, power, jab etc. but he fights nothing like Frazier or Norton. So it’s kind of a pointless comparison.

 

This thread is far from over.

Wlad couldn’t ko Haye who had actually been ko’d before. Couldn’t ko a guy who had been stopped by Nate Tubbs. Couldn’t ko Ibragimov
Couldn’t ko Byrd in tbe first fight, a former middleweight btw who had been stopped before.

but he is going to ko a guy who was never stopped in his prime and who stood up to the thunderous fists of Foreman. lol sure.

what does Wlad have to do with Frazier? Frazier is a pressure fighter with an extremely high work rate and exceptional body punching. Wlad fights nothing like that.

this is the silliest post I have ever seen and anyone liking that post has zero knowledge of boxing

 

Holyfield is a underrated shout here.

 

From the list offered, and given that peak Ali was incredibly fast, young and with a style no-one (pre FOTC) had been able to master, possessing a pride that made him beat some worse than others (Terrell/ Patterson), i think the fighters with the best chance against him are those he would underestimate or were very humble people, or both. For that reason i think Usyk and Holyfield would have good shouts against the greatest version of Ali. Usyk as a foreigner may also have been a bit of a mystery and harder to prepare for. Both these guys are intelligent, driven fighters who posess great chins and no fear. I'd pick both fights to go the full distance and be narrow decisions that were argued about for years. if really pushed i think Usyk may get a decision vs Ali as he constantly proved me wrong when i picked against him! I should also say i wouldnt be surprised if peak Ali bested them all, we were robbed of 3 years of brilliance from 67-70 who knows what he may have achieved.

 

He doesn’t land as much against movement, sure but he still lands. He’s done it against all the guys you mentioned hence why he beat them.

The key point is that Wlad doesn’t need to fully set his feet to use the jab, he uses it to track distance and bring the fight back to his range. So even if Ali makes him miss at times, that doesn’t explain why Wlad can’t just re-establish distance again and keep the exchanges short and not give Ali a chance to counter.

And on catching him mid-range, that typically comes from pressure and forcing exchanges. Ali wasn’t a consistent pressure fighter he preferred to operate at range. Movement and feints make it harder for Wlad to land, but they also make it harder for Ali to build his own offense. That’s why the jab is the key factor here. If Wlad is controlling the range with it, Ali still has to repeatedly work his way into position without being allowed to stay there all the while having to deal with a very good jab that Ali has never shown a great ability to deal with and that’s where I think the difference is.

 

He tried to be a pressure fighter against Young and he looked horrible while doing it.

 

Tbf a bit of miles on the clock hit Ali by then but yes Ali was better on the outside than inside.

 

Of course. But it's the only fight by Ali when he had to be a pressure fighter throughout. We don't have another example.

 

Understatement of the century lol

 

Fair though.