Who Does The Best Against Prime Ali? (Poll Included)

I say he had to exchange in the pocket/inside against Frazier in 3rd fight the most.

But sure we agree he is mainly a outside fighter.

 

Tyson or Wlad. Tyson fought the Ali impersonators though, so he’s my pick. He also had a compact left hook to match Frazier’s. Frazier also might do it.

 

Yeah, but he was still fighting on the backfoot, no stepping in.

 

Bad example.
When Wlad fought Fury, he was past his best. And he was at a disadvantage vs Fury in terms of size and reach. Versus Ali, he will have the edge in both departments.

Ali won't land almost anything except some measly jabs. He will will waste way too much energy trying to get close enough to land something meaningfull.
On the other hand, Wlad will jab and grab, while landing the occasional bigger punch.
Overall it will be a borefest and Wlad will win on points.

 

That won't work vs Wlad.

 

I think it's a good example though but to be fair it meant he was getting absolutely smashed by Frazier's power punches also and even more than the 1st fight so it wasn't flawless either.

 

I've rarely seen him throw his jab against someone who is actively moving side to side, he chases them down trying to get into a good position and he almost never lands it in that scenario. He doesn’t use a flicker jab, his jab is stiff and is effective at stopping forward momentum or measuring and catching stationary targets. Everytime he landed the jab on Haye, Williamson or any other mover was when they were more stationary at mid/long range or standing straight up and it's not like Klitschko can't be touched by shorter fighters, i mean, what notable jabber has Klitschko ever beaten ? Ali has beaten Liston and Foreman. Pulev was the best jabber Klitschko has beaten, he could really step into the jab and occasionally land the right and there were no immediate consequences because Klitschko can't counter punch, but Pulev stands straight up and doesn't typically use any sort of lateral movement, which is why Klitschko switched up his gameplan after arguably getting outboxed at the start to setting his feet and blasting Pulev. He wouldn't be able to do this against Ali

He wouldn't be controlling the range with it as effectively here. You just assume he does because he's bigger. Here's a gripe i have with this post. You say Ali would be forced to become a pressure fighter here, but this could not be further from the truth, because Wlad is the one who always actively stalking fleet footed HWs down instead of every trying to make them come to him and jabbing when they momentarily sit in one spot looking or looking to land their own shots. Wlad is the one who will be forced on the front foot, Alis constant level changes will make him more gunshy on top of not being able to consistently land his jab against someone who is moving back and forth, side to side, and keeping his upper body and feet active, yet you assume Klitschko will be the one controlling the ring geometry due to size despite Klitschko being caught by more limited fighters backpeddling with jabs or just mid/long range jabs and straight right hands and none of them are as dynamic as a prime Ali.

Klitschko has no "mechanism" of shutting down Alis movement, his workrate or reducing his stamina levels, you haven't explained how, he can only shut down his offense. Wlad throws single shots against moving targets (if that), doesn't counter punch, doesn't move his head and doesn't throw body shots and him resetting range doesn't score points. wheras Ali has 2 "mechanisms" to shut down Wladimirs workrate and his offense. Moving and feinting doesn't make it harder for Ali to build offense it makes it easier because it makes him more unpredictable and Klitschko isn't punching as often

 

No. He's saying Ali won't land often enough to win more rounds than Wlad.

This video disproves your argument instead of supporting it. Bugner does not jab or keep his lead hand like Wlad does. Quite the opposite, he keeps both hands near his face, thus letting Ali dictate the pace.

 

Liston was very old, did not prepare well, and was slow. Plus he was way smaller than Wlad.

 

Explain

Ali was past his best in all his losses also Furys size advantage wasnt the main factor that shut down Klitschko lol. He got bamboozled because of Furys unorthodox eradic style and his constant movement. We know even someone as limited as Wilder could land on Fury more than Klitschko. 36 year old 6'3 pillowfisted Cunningham was able to outbox Fury for a few rounds and even drop him, why couldn't the bigger Klitschko manage this feat ?

Klitschko won't land enough to win more rounds than Ali, even your friend has admitted Klitschko can be hit by shorter fighters

No it proves than Ali can outbox a taller guy trying to keep the fight long. Bugner doesn't fight like Klitschko but Klitschko has never beaten anyone like Ali. He claimed Ali couldn't outjab someone who is taller with a longer reach when he did it twice against world level heavyweights

 

Wlad
Usyk
Lewis
Holmes
Fury/Iron Mike/Frazier

Would be my pick for 5 or so toughest fights for peak Ali

 

Because Wlad is bigger and has a longer reach and good jab, Ali will have to move left to right, do a feint in order to get an opening, and when that happens, dart in to land and dart out in order to avoid getting hit back. He will use tenfold the energy Wlad will, while only landing at best half of what Wlad does.

Not vs Frazier 1.

Fury has an unorthodox style indeed, but Ali doesn't, he's way more predictable.
But Fury's size and Wlad's age also played a big factor.

Wilder is slightly faster than Wlad. He was also in his prime when he fought Fury, Wlad wasn't.

Cause styles make fights and Wlad was older.

He will. His jab alone will win him some rounds.

 

Yes exactly, styles make fights. Klitschko couldn't cut the ring against Fury when shorter fighters have done it, didn't have the tools to use counter punching in conjunction with his typical style, couldn't utilize any form of body punching and was scared to throw because of Furys feints. Based on styles Wlads rhythm is more likely to get broken against Ali, but because Wlad is bigger, you just disregard all of this.

And Ali likewise

Besides Fury using the southpaw stance and body punching he doesn't do anything better. He's not more unpredictable dude has kissed the canvas 10 times, isn't as agile, doesn't get hit any less than Ali, and isn't nearly as proven against top level heavyweights

You explained how Ali can tag Wlad, but his stamina isn't going to be a big problem here he's used to dancing all night and typically has a higher workrate. If anything Wlads stamina problems will show up over 15 getting befuddled and constantly on the front foot, there's certainly a lot more proof of that

 

Frazier, Bloody Frazier

 

I think you're overstating it when you say Wlad almost never lands the jab on movers. He clearly lands less, but he still uses it to track distance and keep the fight at his preferred range. He doesn’t need a flicker jab or high volume for that just touching with it and keeping his lead hand out is enough to control positioning. And then when they stop moving, which every mover does even Ali, he would be in the perfect position to land a hard jab which is exactly how he dealt with movers. The issue isn’t whether he lands it clean every time, it’s whether he can keep re-establishing that distance and he’s done that against ever smaller mobile opponent.

That’s not just an assumption, that’s the foundation of Wlad's style. He controls space behind the jab and keeps the fight at his range.

You’re also treating him being on the front foot as chasing, but those aren’t the same thing. He doesn’t need to pursue aggressively he steps forward behind the jab and controls space that way. That’s why fighters like Byrd and Ibragimov struggled to deal with him.

Movement and feints make it harder for him to land clean, but they don’t automatically give Ali control. They also mean Ali isn’t set to throw consistently either, because he has to stay mobile to avoid the jab.

So the question isn’t who moves more it’s who controls the distance. Even if Ali disrupts him at times, that doesn’t explain why Wlad can’t keep re-establishing range and force the exchanges to happen on his terms.