Shannon Briggs Lineal Belt

I don’t want to go around in circles I don’t think we’ll see this the same way.
So Foreman gets his title shot coming off a clear cut loss to Morrison. No robbery, no controversy he flat out loses to Tommy. He gets rewarded in his very next bout to fight two belt and lineal champion Moorer. That’s ok. However Schulz beats Foreman pretty clearly and gets robbed, Foreman gets a pass in your book even though the IBF stripped him for not giving his cherry picked and paid to a be ranked opponent a rematch. I’m not sure what boxrec says but if memory serves me he got his ranking for the fight. I could be wrong it’s over 30 years ago.
Schulz in retrospect was an ok opponent. But I’m the moment even the HBO team didn’t know who he was they couldn’t find film of any of his fights. Clearly Schulz was supposed to be a rollover opponent. Grimsley was awful and Savarese and Briggs were C level guys. Foreman didn’t have much left. He lost to Morrison, lost every moment of the Moorer fight until he caught him late. Got beaten up by Schulz and just continued to fight lesser guys after that.

 

The overwhelming public consensus was that none of these guys were top 10 heavyweights and that they were all completely undeserving of title shots.

Which is why Foreman lost recognition as champ with the public at large

 

Yes Shannon Briggs was the lineal successor to John L Sullivan, and in one of the strongest eras in the history of the division.

It took a virtually impossible sequence of events to make it happen.

A strong champion, lost to a weaker one, who lost to an even weaker one, then a controversial decision.

Holyfield to Briggs is the ultimate dive to the bottom.

For all that, Briggs should still go to bead every night, knowing that he was the Heavyweight Champion.

 

The public at large never recognized Briggs as champ. That's not the case for other lineal champs who enjoyed widespread public recognition

 

A lot of people didn't recognize Marvin Hart's title claim at the time, but it put down roots over the years, and now you would have to rewrite the lineage to void it.

The same is true of Briggs.

 

Briggs is still not recognized as champ as best I can tell. The public wasn't willing to put up with Foreman's shenanigans hence he lost recognition as champ

Hart being recognized as champ is news to me

 

Yes Hart and Briggs are lineal.

They might be weak lineal champions, and the circumstances under which they won the title might not be entirely satisfactory, but I don't see how it can be otherwise.

 

It's otherwise due to overwhelming loss of public support for Foreman's title reign due to disgraceful title defenses.

Roy Jones jr was overwhelmingly recognized as lineal champs at light heavyweight despite never winning lineage in the ring against Michalczewski

 

The problem with that argument is that you can't lose the lineal title outside the ring.

So we have to either say that Foreman was never the lineal champion in the 90s, or accept the Briggs lineage.

By the same token you can't scrub Hart from the lineage without scrubbing Burns as well.

 

Boxing fans have overwhelmingly taken the view that there are limits to this argument.

Otherwise Usyk could be captured by the KGB and hold the lineal title hostage for 20 years and upon his release lose to some journeyman

 

Then you would have to ask yourself what the lineage is between Bowe and Lewis and why?

 

There are. But that limit being reached takes time(usually 3-5 years) and the lineal champs failure to fight someone who is considered the "real champ". Briggs was champ 4 months and lost to Lennox. These limits were not being approached. The RJJ and DM situation is what those limits look like.

The reason Foreman lineal title was never in jeopardy is that there was no "real champ" defending their belt against clearly superior competition. Or defending their belt period. The closest thing to that was Moorer who Foreman had beaten. Every time a potential alternative to Foreman emerged for one reason or another they got taken off the board. If Lennox had went on his 98-01 run in 94-97 it would be a different story but whether or not the lineal champ is worthy isn't about them its about whether theres a RJJ type figure. And in Foremans case there wasn't.

 

Right. That's hilarious. I noticed that, too.

Either that photo is fabricated, or Marc Roberts, the bald guy in the photo and Briggs' manager at the time, just had one made up for the night.

That's not any organization's belt or a Ring belt (they didn't name champions in the 90s.)

Nobody had Lineal heavyweight champ on their belt in the 90s, and orgs don't bring belts with the challengers' names already on them in case he wins.

Fake photo or a prop, like the "king's crown" made of jewels Don King put on Mike Tyson's head when he won the HBO Tournament.

Seems fitting for a thread started on April Fools Day.

 

When Foreman beat Moorer, I remember an article in that weekly British magazine saying Foreman and Mike Tyson (who was set to get out of prison in a matter of months) could be a $100 million fight.

Nobody knew who Tyson was going to sign with when he got out. Every promoter was visiting him in prison. George visited him, too.

So, the plan was for George, after winning the title, to bide his time, and HBO thought they had a realistic chance of airing a Foreman-Tyson mega fight after Mike had a comeback fight or two.

That's why the network approved Shulz as an opponent and a fight they would air.

They had eyes on the big fight later that year after George knocked off Axel.

But, while HBO was waiting, King went into overdrive, pushing the WBA to strip George. Getting a lucrative deal with the Mirage arranged.

Tyson signed with King, and I believe the Tyson-McNeeley fight was announced the same week as Foreman-Shulz took place,.

Then Axel looked to have won against George, and it all kinda came unraveled.

His win over Moorer seemed almost magical, then his reign kind of died on the vine.

 

RJJ did not have that recognition day one. Both men had 11 fights in the time between DM beating Virgil Hill and the Ring handing RJJ the belt. It took 4.5 years for that change to happen. While today most of RJJs reign might be considered lineal this was done ex post facto not in real time.

There was no Roy Jones Jr during Foremans reign. From 11/94-10/97 Foreman and Moorer were the only HW champions to defend a belt multiple times. 2 of Moorers 3 title wins were against Schulz a Foreman opponent and Botha who'd won his belt by beating Schulz who was a Foreman opponent. The other was Bean who had no wins against opponents with double digit wins who were over .500.

The broader public might have considered Tyson and Holyfield champ for cultural reasons but thats not based on boxing. Tyson earned his title shot by beating the same dude Savarese did to earn his. Holyfield got his shot at Tyson coming off 3 losses in 7 fights.

Holyfield had a real claim to being the best HW after the Moorer win(not just because he won but the fight itself) but this was 2 weeks before the Briggs fight. And since Lennox and Holyfield share the RJJ role in November 1997 neither could have replaced Foreman or Briggs until they fought. Much how neither AJ or Wilder could have replaced Fury until they fought. If Briggs had refused to unify this could tack on another 2 years before Lennox gets that crown.