More skilled: James Toney or Terrence Crawford?

He's more reliable and versatile, but against much lesser opposition, with an easier schedule.

 

I think Crawford is more adaptable.

He can fight on the inside/outside.

Better footwork.

Switch stances seamlessly.

Toney didn't have the greatest footwork and when he had to chase an opponent he looked more beatable.

But saying all that Crawford has never really been tested against an elite fighter in his prime.

 

100%

Would Terence look as great, against the level of opposition that James fought?

 

He appears more capable because he is, since he's a more skilled fighter. James Toney had styles he struggled and looked bad against, Crawford never had regardless of who he faced, and the reason for that is because Crawford is more skilled. You haven't mentioned their respective skillsets at all and are just giving excuses for why Toney struggled and lost against fighters the caliber of whom never troubled Crawford. Crawford on his best night against his strongest opponents is still more skilled than Toney at his best against guys he could beat with his eyes closed because skill and level of opposition are entirely separate factors.

 

What utter nonsense.


Skills and the level/style of opposition, go hand in hand.

They are not completely separate factors.


Terence could dazzle Spence, but could barely beat Madramov.

James could dazzle against Barkley, but couldn’t do anything against Roy.


Yes, James struggled with styles, just like any fighter does.

The difference is: James fought more styles, across more weight classes.

He fought better opponents.

He had a much tougher schedule.


He fought an incredible technician in Mike McCallum.

Now who has Terence fought that’s comparable??

Nobody.


He fought a prime Roy Jones Jr.

Who has Terence fought, who could even compare to a prime Roy Jones??


He fought a prime Michael Nunn.

Who has Terence fought that’s comparable to a prime Michael Nunn?

A guy of that size and style??

Nobody is the answer.


He fought a volume punching southpaw at CW, in Jirov.


He fought Reggie Johnson.


Who has Terence fought?

Mostly B level/faded fighters.


Sure James struggled with guys like Tiberi. But only because he was fighting every 2 months at that stage.

By the time he’d fought Roy Jones at just 26, he’d already fought almost 50 fights.

He also fought McCallum, Nunn and Reggie, all in the space of about 10 months.

That was a world away from fighting a few times per year, against guys like Porter, and washed up versions of Brook and Khan etc.


Terence has never seen those opponents

He’s never had that schedule.


If you gave a prime James Toney an easy opponent/stylistic fight, when motivated, he looked a million bucks.

Give Terence a tough stylistic match up like Madramov, he looks nothing special.


Give him 5 Madramov type opponents, and he’d have 5 very tough match ups.


Yes, Terence is greatly skilled. He’s a joy to watch.

But for the most part, he’s had a significant reach advantage, against mediocre opposition.


He’s never fought an elite chess master, an elite southpaw technician, or a guy like Jones.

Never fought every few months against world level opposition for a prolonged period.


Terence appears superior to you, because you’ve never seen him lose or have close fights like James.

But then if you’re not going to apply context, it’s completely pointless.


If you swapped around their opponents and their schedules, I guarantee you that things would look very different.

 

Would Crawford lose to the level of opponent Toney did?

 

He absolutely could have, under similar conditions.

That’s the point.


People will look at a defeat by the likes of Tiberi.

It happens frequently on here.


Then they’ll say:

“Terence/GGG etc, would never have lost to a guy like that”


That’s because they pick the best version of their favourite fighter, and without allowing for context/circumstances.


Now would James have lost to Tiberi at his best?

Highly unlikely.


James fought Tiberi less than 8 weeks after McCallum, where he had zero motivation.

He just went through the motions, where he was nowhere near 100% fit, either physically or mentally.

And for Tiberi, it was his ‘Superbowl’/World Cup final.


Terence never had that kind of schedule.

He never fought under those same circumstances.


James was unlucky with some of his decisions against guys Griffin/Thadzi at LHW. And they were tough match ups like Madramov was for Terence.


At HW/the final stages of James’ career, it’s not really relevant.

James had no business being there, and Terence will never fight at that age, up at those equivalent weights.

 

I do not care about your Toney apologia. Tell me what James Toney does in prize-ring better and more skilfully than Terence Crawford does? What actual skills of his profession is he quantifiably better at applying?

 

Crawford is by far the more disciplined. In terms of skills, it is pretty close but I would give Toney the edge.

 

You don’t care?

What a great response from you.

How objective.


I’ve already said that Terence is a great fighter.

He’s one of my favourite fighters.


However, it’s very easy to say that he’s better than James, when again, he simply never fought the same calibre of opposition, or the same schedule.


Again, Terence has dazzled against mostly mediocre opposition. And as soon as he moved up from WW to face a tough stylistic match up, he struggled.

So it should be obvious to you that had he have fought more of those kinds of opponents, above his best weight, that those kinds of of results could have been replicated.


I’ve seen Terence put on great displays against the likes of Spence.

But I’ve never seen him play chess with a guy like McCallum.

I’ve never seen him put on a masterclass against a tough guy like Barkley, or beat a guy like Tim Littles within 3 rounds.

 

James was a great fighter. I got it first hand from Bill Miller that, for his loss against Jones Jr., James was out during training camp roaming Vegas with Dre and Snoop. I made a similar mistake/error in judgement and ended up getting my ass handed to me in the GG finals. As for James movement, he was hampered by a football injury years before. Something with his ankle. I fought amateur out of the same club as him and later as a pro, we even had the same trainer for a little bit. James was the man doe.

 

Please tell us more.

 

"It all started I was born a poor black child....." The Jerk

 

I, for one, spent countless nights roaming Vegas with Dre and Snoop and never had any problems with my conditioning. Snoop even made weight much more easily than Toney.

 

One of your better posts.