These conspiracy theories have no backing at all, especially with Liston explaining what happened, which fits exactly what we have seen.
I'm inclined to agree with this , his friend and long time sparring partner,Foneda Cox said he asked Sonny why he didn't tell him what was going to happen,Cox stated Sonny said,"with your big mouth we would both have ended up wearing cement boots."
I think it hardly likely Sonny would tell the world ,"yeah I took a dive." Ali went back to his corner unconvinced he had legitimately ko'd Sonny, telling his brother he dived,according to Jerry Izenberg who was ringside,Ali shouted to the prone Liston,"get up you bum,nobody will believe this".The punch may have been hard enough to drop Liston,but,imo it wasnt hard enough to ko him,his rolling over looked particularly unconvincing to me.
100% with you--I've always felt Sonny knew that Ali was simply too fast and sharp for him at that point and he had no chance. He wanted to collect his money and get the hell out of there as quickly as possible.
100% agree--Sonny had no chance and he knew it--Ali was too fast, too sharp, and more filled out physically than a year earlier. Rather than take an even worse beating than the first fight look for a way to end it quickly and get your payday with minimal damage. That's always been my take on it!
Ali didn't want to go to his corner that was a problem. If Liston wanted to take a dive, he wouldn't got up.
The only thing I ever wondered was why Liston squared up to fight again. Why would you ever do that if you wanted to take a dive? Why would you let the guy hit you all over teh ring. It just feels like he was mentally defeated. Also, was this the first time at that time Sonny was knocked down? I know he got knocked out once after this in brutal fashion I believe
The fight was a fix. No venue wanted any part of the fight so they had to hold it at a obscure hockey rink which held only 2k people. You really think a major Heavyweight fight wouldn't have venues queuing up to host a major Heavyweight title fight ? As for the punch it landed on the cheek not the temple which goes against the arguments in favour of Ali landing a quick shot to the temple. The acting from Liston rolling around on the floor looked fake as hell aswell.
Liston appeared in a few movies, TV shows and commercials -- and in my opinion he was bad in all of them. He had no talent for acting and he lacked the winning personality that made fighters like Maxie Rosenbloom and Max Baer appealing on the screen. Nor was he endearing or funny like Rocky Graziano. He couldn't read a script let alone interpret the writer's intention. Sonny was a born fighter. I don't know of any other skills that he possessed. He could time a punch, but a punchline? Forget about it.
Hi Buddy. He was somewhat of an enigma, both as a fighter and as a human being, you ask about other skills, whilst not a skill as such, he had a wonderful way about him when he was in the company of children ( as did his nemesis Ali ) that Liston had a little of Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, he appeared genuinely happy and at ease with children, maybe it was their innocence, he was used to dishonest and two faced people, that's all he had known, I see his face as sad, not malevolent, when told by disbelieving reporters that Patterson had signed for the return, he exclaimed " who can tell a bird it can't fly " such prowse, from a miscreant, my take is he threw the fight, he knew Ali was not scared of him, and was the better fighter, and a more cunning and crafty individual would have carried out the charade with more conviction, but not Sonny, how he must have hated himself after, so yes I have mixed feelings about him. stay safe guys. Mike.
For the younger people soon after the fight there was a panel discussion on wide world of sports tv show about it with Howard Costello which would have been the closest thing to Stephen A on ESPN that they had at the time. The topic was specifically to answer was there even a punch that landed. He had 2 sports writers if memory serves and Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano in this panel. They basically conceded there was a punch but not a very hard one. The consensus was that the whole thing stunk to high heaven. Dempsey didn’t even watch the fight live cause he implied he knew something was very wrong. These were insiders of the day and they all heard something fishy was going to happen. The results certainly only fed those suspicions.
Mike, you have a big heart. I appreciate this post, and I really am struck by your comparison of Liston to the Lenny character in "Of Mice and Men" and I think it's apt. There's truth in it. I was 14 when Liston won the championship. I had a special fascination with him for many years. People who weren't around at that time can't completely understand the fear that Liston aroused when he ruled the roost. Almost from the beginning when he came upon the scene, certain writers would attempt to capture that contradiction in his character -- the gentleness inside the angry beast. Did you ever read James Baldwin's piece on him? He seemed to understand Liston better than all the sports columnists combined. Another perceptive piece I recommend was in Sports Illustrated and was written by Barbara La Fontaine. Read those two if you haven't already.