Wilder's Right Hand?

He won the title off of Arreola, and Wilder was his first title defense. That makes him a legitimate champion whether you agree with it or not.

You don't see me claiming that AJ beating Charles Martin isn't legitimate because I'm not an inconsistent hater. You can only fight who's in front of you.

Respectfully, there's a big difference between you beating up people in wheel chairs and actual boxers. I shouldn't have to explain that to you as an adult. There's a clear example in his power when he either dropped or stopped all of his opponents except Zhang and Parker who are known for their chins.

 

Chris Arreola was not a belt holder though, the WBC title was vacant.

In fact Stiverne had beaten Arreola for the WBC silver belt two fights previous....So how is that a legit World title fight? How can you legitimately win a vacant World Title, against an opponent you beat two fights previous? Stiverne didn't even have a fight in between, he beat Arreola and then somehow becomes mandatory for the vacant WBC heavyweight title fight against Arreola, make that make sense?

There's a significant difference here between Joshua winning his IBF belt. Firstly, he actually won it off a guy who had the belt, regardless of what you think of him. Secondly, and more importantly, he actually LEGITIMIZED his World Title challenge AFTER he won the belt, by taking on Klitschko. With no Fury, Klitschko was still the man in the division. Joshua took an a hungry young challenge in Whyte to get his shot, the took on Klitschko, before unifying 2 fights later against Parker, beating previous contender Povetkin, before losing to and then defeating Ruiz, beating Pulev, again a previous contender etc.

Joshua justified the IBF's decision to make him mandatory by defending against Klitschko, Povetkin, Pulev, Ruiz and also unifying against Parker, and attempting to with Usyk....Meanwhile, Wilder was fighting guys for 4 years which were not legitimate contenders. There's a huge difference here, one which anybody can see. Trying to claim Molina/Duhaupas/Szpilka etc is the same as fighting Klitschko, Parker, Povetkin etc is just laughable.

Wilder never once attempted to unify, until his team thought they could run over a completely out of shape and unfit Tyson Fury...Meanwhile Joshua fought Klitschko in his 3rd defence and unified against Parker in his 5th.....Whilst Wilder, by contrast, was defending against Szpilka and Washington.

So no, concluding all the above, Deontay Wilder is not a legitimate World Champion. He's manufactured. He's never defeated an opponent who has either beaten a World Champion OR has defended a World Title...So how is he a World Champion? He didn't take on any of the contenders until after losing his belt, and lost to both the two legitimate contenders he has fought, in Parker and Zhang. The guy isn't even Top 5 of this generation.

 

That's a wild take. Wilder won the WBC off of a defending champion and proceeded to defend it for the better part of a decade. That's fact.

You can complain about the quality of his opponents all you want, but at the end of the day they are all official and legitimate fights in accordance with the rules of the governing body. That doesn't magically change because a random person on a forum doesn't deem them to be sufficient.

 

Wilder looked fine against Helenius. There's no evidence he was shot post Fury

 

The quality of opposition was no better than many guys without belts. So why should Wilder get more credit than someone like Povetkin, Hrgovic, Ajagba etc who beat similar levels of opposition

 

If that's the case what stopped them from picking up these belts? It's not as though there's only one.

 

You're completely missing the point.

Joshua, Fury, Zhang, Parker, Dubois....Even the likes of Makhmudov, Whyte etc, would be WBC champion with the same record as Wilder facing that level of opposition.

Deontay Wilder MAY just about scrape into the Top 10 of this Era, but he doesn't get close to the Top 5. Usyk, Fury, Wilder, Parker, Dubois, Zhang, Whyte are all clear of him with their victories.

You can complain about the quality of his opponents all you want, but at the end of the day they are all official and legitimate fights in accordance with the rules of the governing body.

That's the stupidest defence I've heard for a fighter....The Governing Body literally make their own rules up as they go along. They can change them at any time. So yes, opinions of boxing fans are far more relevant.

The WBC site isn't loading for some reason, so let's look at the IBF....According to the IBF, the three highest ranking Heavyweights after Usyk are Frank Sanchez, Richard Torrez JR and Moses Itauma. So your argument is completely flawed. None of those guys are Top 5, yet according to the Governing body are rank 2,3 and 4 in the World.

If Frank Sanchez IS NOT the 2nd best HW in the World, after Usyk, then your argument is completely destroyed.

 

My argument is not flawed. A fighter can only beat those in front of him. If you're only just now discovering some orgs rankings are terrible you must be new to boxing, but that doesn't make them "less legitimate".

I know it's easy to bash Wilders record (hell, I've done it plenty) but at least be consistent. He won't even have the worst title defense of active heavyweights after May.

In addition, Usyk holding the majority of the titles solidifies my point that the rankings must work because the current best heavyweight of this generation holds all of them except for the WBO, so your move chief.

 

What a dumb thread.

Wilder lost one decision in 50 pro fights. One decision. One! Who, this century can say the same after 50 pro fights? It must be a super long list if that's no big deal anymore.

Wilder knocked out or knocked down every boxer he faced except for two men in 50 pro fights. All but TWO!

Even guys who fight nobody's don't knock down or knock out virtually everyone they fight.

Who this century knocked down or knocked out all but TWO opponents in 50 fights? Must be a long list if that's no big deal.

Wilder can't punch because Szpilka went rounds with him? Szpilka was carried out of the ring on a stretcher, was hospitalized, was out for a year, and was never the same again.

Name another heavyweight who hit so hard his opponent was carried out of the ring on a goddamn stretcher?

Wilder can't punch because Arreola went rounds with him? Wilder had a broken right hand and a torn bicep, and still got the KO.

Most fighters don't win by KO with a broken hand OR a torn bicep, they quit. Wilder had both, and still got the KO. Who else has scored a KO win with worse injuries to both arms?

What else, Stiverne was NOT a champ but Martin was? Stiverne was Vitali's mandatory. Klitschko was ordered to fight him. Vitali vacated and retired instead. And Stiverne won the vacant title by brutal stoppage.

The IBF belt, on the other hand, was stripped from Fury 10 days after he won it for not signing to fight Glazkov. Glazkov got his vacant title shot and blew out his knee, and Martin won via injury to his opponent's knee.

How on earth was Martin more legit? He won a vacant title fight he wasn't scheduled to get when his opponent hurt his knee.

What else. Wilder never signed to fight anyone?

How many champs this century have a successful title defense against Tyson Fury?

How many champs put their title on the line twice against Tyson Fury?

Or knocked Fury down four times?

How many champs signed to defend against Povetkin? And which champion out of those three did Povetkin take PEDs against (and get caught), because he felt he needed them to win?

How many heavyweight champs engaged in a Fight of the Year winner this century?

Hell, how many engaged in a Fight of the Year candidate this year?

It's all just absolute nonsense.

 

I think Ortiz was a good opponent I'd say. But the Wilder fans have beaten this win like a dead horse and exaggerated his high level to death.

At times he looked like he belonged in the middle top contenders position. But truth of the matter is, at best he would be a tough gatekeeper to the top ten. And one thing to note, some of the 'name' boxers were at the very end of their careers.

I liked Ortiz. But his "best version" just didn't last very long at all.

 

I agree with this for the most part. It is generally the guys with heavy hands who are the last to lose their power. Wilder’s power comes more from leverage combined with the speed of his right hand, which generates a large amount of power due to his fast twitch muscle fibers and long arms. Guys with heavy handed power (Foreman for example) don’t throw with the same velocity but once their hands hit the target, their hands decelerate at a slower rate. Part of that is due to just natural strength/power, and part of it is due to their technique and how they sit down on their punches and are able to punch through the target.

 

I'm reminded of Big George Foreman who, when asked by a pundit during his comeback 'George, just who are these tomato cans you're knocking out' replied 'I don't know, but I'm KNOCKING THEM OUT'

If you've never had a fight at any level you might be unaware just how hard it is to have the blend of power, timing and natural untaught whatever the hell to separate another man from his senses, particularly anybody with a basic semblance of martial arts ability. Wilder's power was legit. Genuine touch of sleep stuff. And thats demonstrably true. Look at any big puncher and their record will be full of 'opponents' but what marks them out as special is not who they beat but how they beat them...

 

Well i don't know who's career i dislike more and personality wise, both wilder and joshua can suck it.
But there is no way wilder wouldn't have beaten charles martin and i am pretty sure he would have beaten parker back then when parker was young and wilder didn't have two losses to fury and a drug trip and generally mental issues. Parker was good then and i liked him, but Not reall better than ortiz. (One could try to argue with the common opponent in ruiz and when both opponents fought ruiz but i will not, since i dislike silly boxing arithmetics)

So you argue that wilder was 'manufactured' when in fact joshua got all the opportunities that wilder didn't get, because joshua had a massive following from the olympics which he should NOT have won and which started HIS obviously 'manufactured' career. They already back then saw how they could make him a cash cow because he was british and could be an olympic heavyweight gold medal winner.
Then all this talk from hearn and joshua how he was 'still learning'. There was a massive media machinery like with no other fighter at that time.

Talk about 'manufactured'

And if you want to judge the whole situation you can always put blame on the other side, but the only two relevant top fighters from their era who actually fought were fury vs wilder. (Because wilder thought fury was too washed up probably, but at least that happened)

Both joshua and wilder f'd up