Was Frazier past his prime in Kingston?

Joe Frazier's hand was raised in the FoC but Muhammad Ali beat the ever-loving tee-total s**t out of him that night. I don't think he was ever the same afterward, save Manila where he was fueled by sheer hatred.

 

Prime but not peak for me.

 

Seems like you already have the answer so why bother making a thread?

 

Imo yes.He was just beginning to slide when he fought Foreman but obviously not as past his best against Ali in the thrilla.
The FOTC must have really wrecked Joe ,he was still only 29, still the reigning heavyweight champion ,he wasn't in bad shape as such.
Just not able to last against a monster like Foreman.

 

At the end of the day, in the vast majority of cases, people are gonna say someone’s prime was in a win of theirs’, but I can’t say he was past his prime just because he lost the fight.

Another argument could be that the 1st Ali fight took something out of him, but he didn’t take many huge punches, and fighters have certainly taken more punishment in fights and not been diminished after.

Holyfield had that fight with Qawi, took punishment and nearly got stopped against Bert Cooper and definitely hit his HW peak after those fights, and an argument could be made that he also hit it after the 1st Bowe fight too (in which he took a lot of punishment from a much bigger man and huge puncher as well).

 

Fraziers prime was 69-71 IMO. So yes he was past it .

 

He wasn't peak, but Foreman beats any version of Frazier

 

Close enough. Foreman deserves credit for that fight.

 

Post-Prime but not by too much.

 

I think Frazier slowly started to erode after the 1st Ali fight.

He had problems with his left eye citing back to the 1960s that got progressively worst.

Apparently he had arthritis aswell in the 1970s.

I think Frazier gave everything he had in the 1st Ali fight mentally & physically and was never quite the same after that.

You also have to remember Frazier wasn't in the best of shape vs Foreman either wasn't he like 10 pounds heavier compared to the FOTC ? He certainly didn't look as good physically in Kingston Jamaica.

But saying all that Frazier still had notable performances after the Foreman loss stopping Ellis, Quarry, decision win over Bugner.

Not to mention 2 very spirited efforts vs Ali even though he lost.

So it's not like Frazier was totally past it vs Foreman far from it. But I don't think Frazier ever reached his peak level again after the the 1st Ali fight.

But also let's be real Foreman is a stylistic nightmare for Frazier. So realistically it wouldn't matter what version of Frazier is in there with Foreman he's getting stopped regardless.

 

Hi McGrain.
At first glance that appears nonsensical, what with 50 years or so of seeing and hearing about the FOTC, and Fraziers performance, but I am in full agreement with your bold and forward thinking assessment, I have been of the opinion, and have said so on the forum, that I rate the KO of Foster as his finest, I received quite a lot of push back at the time, but I remained steadfast, and still do, kudos to you.
saty safe.
Mike.

 

Something most don't understand about fighters is how much mental energy they put into a fight and achieving goals. Look at Duran. the high point of his career was beating Leonard; that was the goal and he reached it. he had a bunch of less than stellar performances after, though he did turn it up against barkley and Hagler.
With frazier, he put it all out there against Ali and won the fight of the century. What else compares to that? How can there not be a letdown? His career faltered after that but he brought it again in Manila but with much less fire.