The myth of the "Prime Deontay Wilder"

Great post.

This is precisely the problem with rating him highly - the evidence is limited, and reliance on assumption isn't wise.

It's possible that he could've beaten better guys if he'd fought them sooner... But he didn't.

It's possible that he was so reliant on confidence and aura that his first (official) loss was always going to ruin him... Then again, it's possible that he'd have come back with a couple more explosive KO's and been unaffected.
In either case, we just don't know - we don't know if the Fury losses ruined him, or whether Parker and Zhang were just a level above, and we don't know whether he'd have been able to come back if he'd lost to Pov (for example, if it had happened) or if he'd lost the first Ortiz fight, etc.

The other problem is that his resume is super tied up with Ortiz, who also has a limited resume (Jennings was a decent enough win, but he was never top tier - and Ortiz was a few years removed from that and at an age where decline is not unusual), and Fury, who was clearly not 100% in the first bout and the third, which makes pegging the competitiveness of those bouts difficult.


End of the day, what he proved was limited - if he hadn't gotten hold of a belt and kept it so long (even if mostly against mediocre opponents) then he wouldn't be in this kind of conversation because few would rate him based on resume alone nearly as highly as they currently do.

In a way, it's a shame we'll never have those answers... In their absence you can either make assumptions or refuse to elevate beyond the limits of the story - I make no apologies for consistently taking the latter approach with all fighters.

 

Joshua was supposed to face Miller at Madison Square Garden in his big American debut but Miller popped hot so Ruiz was chosen instead,had you forgot that ?

 

No. Not at all, but that wasn't what I asked.
I asked
Who do you feel Joshua was supposed to travel to America to face?
He was the "A" side and challenged Ruiz in a neutral location
Who as the A side was he likely going to travel for?
Although I don't really think about the J Paul fight, that fight was in America

Just because he was going to fight Miller, doesn't make Miller a big name that Joshua should have to travel for

It's like say Holyfield didn't choose to defend his titles outside of America
Why would he? He was a big A side

I'm curious about who you felt Joshua should be wanting to travel to America to face?
Who were the top American HWs?

 

It was a voluntary defence,and it was Joshua and his Teams decision for him to travel to America to fight Miller,for his big American reveal,when that fight fell through they went with the Ruiz fight. Was that not the case ? Joshua as the A side and the Unified Champion,him and his Team made the decision for him to fight Miller over in America,simple as that !

 

Too true.

 

To be fair Ruiz struggled badly with Ortiz and he was even more aged out. I’d still like a Wilder vs Ruiz fight.

 

Boxing is a sport where you are mostly as good as your resume, with a few supporting narratives. Wilder is a guy who beats Chisora, Ortiz and Stiverne. He will always get some bonus points from those who appreciate his his KO percentage, and cite his ten title defenses, but at the core of it, he is demonstrably better than only Chisora, Ortiz and Stiverne.

 

The Miller fight was intended to showcase Joshua to the US audience. It was a reasonable matchup until Miller tested positive....again!

Plan B turned out to be Ruiz and he was chosen as what they thought would be a straight forward win. The intention still being to showcase Joshua to the US audience.

As we saw, Ruiz stopping Joshua was an unmitigated disaster to Joshua's plans in America and he never returned*

*The absolute farce against Jake Paul doesn't count.

 

Thompson was 44 when he lost to Ortiz. Ortiz best win was even older than him.

 

Ortiz started his pro career just after the invasion of Normandy

 

Yes. Not disputed any of that, and that was not my question.
My question was

Who do you feel Joshua was supposed to travel to America to face?
He was the "A" side and challenged Ruiz in a neutral location
Who as the A side was he likely going to travel for?
Although I don't really think about the J Paul fight, that fight was in America

The Ruiz rematch was in a neutral location for both.
I don't recall any big calls for a third fight, s who do you feel he was supposed to travel to America for?

It's not a trick question
I was asking you, based on your post as to who you felt he was supposed to be travelling to America for?

 

I don't think about the J Paul fight either.
Yes, the Ruiz fight didn't go as planned for him, but he exercised an immediate rematch and moved on, but outside of potentially Wilder which wasn't on the table, I can't fathom why fighting in America is considered some sort of thing as the best HWs were predominantly based in Europe which is where Joshua is based
There wasn't a big HW fight for him to travel to America for imo

 

Deontay Wilder is a bum killer. Hes a fringe contender in the 90s or even the 2000s. Wilder sparred with Wlad and never answered the bell to fight Wlad. Wlad bet on himself and ducked undefeated AJ. Wlad blamed everyone but himself for his losses including Tyson Fury's use of ancestral spirits, HOF boxer/trainer Mark Breland for poisoning him, OnlyFans superstar Malik Scott was too busy making movies, and on, and on, and on.

Not to mention the dude banged his brother's wife and said he wanted to take a body.

Absolute loser this Wilder is and, objectively, not remotely close to HOF let alone ATG

 

It’s a trick question alright,I’ve replied three times now and still can’t work out what reply you want ! Why does any fighter travel to America to fight ? In some cases a bigger purse,increased exposure,introduction to a bigger global audience,fighting in Historic venues (MSG),build a bigger fan base. No doubt for these reasons Joshua and his Team as the no1 in the Division at that time made the decision to travel and fight in America .

 

You have to admit that Wilder's legs aren't moving as well anymore, that he's not judging distances very well with his left like before, and above all, that even when he lands his right hand cleanly 25-30 times, he can't not knocked out a top 40 now. Wilder's prime was 2012-2022; it's become tough for him. He has all the hallmarks of a veteran boxer who passed his prime now.