Do you believe Otto Wallin was a top 10 heavyweight in the world ?

This poll doesn't prove anything with regards to Otto's perception in November 2023. It proves that, today, people don't think he was a Top 10 guy back then. Even the guys who rated him as Top 10 then, might have voted no, so it only shows how idiotic it is to do such a poll.

 

Well then by your logic Wilder must be one of the greatest in this era to glove them up. No? Exactly.

The thread title was "do you believe Otto Wallin WAS a top 10 heavyweight", not what a handful of rankings said at the time. Using hindsight (as he actually hadn't achieved anything in 2023 other than a loss to Fury) we can clearly deduce that he was not top ten, and based on the poll here it's safe to say this forum "universally" agrees.

 

Jesus this thread is stupid

He was ranked

Quite possibly without merit

That's about it

 

Because he exploited a loophole

Nothing more to it

If he hadn't he wouldn't be ranked and probably rightly so

 

It's not what the thread is about though is it? It's asking if you "believe" he was a top ten heavyweight.

If you believe he was based on rankings, that's valid. If you don't believe he was based on achievements/you felt there were at least 10 better heavyweights around at the time, that's also valid.

 

OK maybe I'm more referencing certain people's back tracking of previous opinions

The thread took a turn at that point but some are using the thread title to back track

 

Feel free to also quote the comment I made explaining that I had updated my opinion, and why. But that wouldn’t fit your narrative so I’m not surprised you haven’t.

Speaking of idiotic, what’s more idiotic is one not admitting their previous opinion was wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary in hindsight. I’m able to face the evidence and admit I was wrong, clearly it seems like you’re unable to despite multiple posters presenting good arguments to you already, but that’s fine.

And for clarity, I don’t care to debate a fighter as weak and irrelevant as Otto Wallin in a topic as niche as his exact ranking in 2023 which is why I haven’t engaged in this thread despite multiple quotes and won’t engage again, cheers

 

They're just confusing 2 things which are completely different:

1. Was Otto Wallin widely perceived as a Top 10 guy in November 2023? - which the answer is "yes", as these are veryfiable facts, backed up by rankings, opinions in the media at the time, opinions of fans (including on this forum) at the time etc.
2. Was Otto Wallin really a Top 10 HW in November 2023 - which answer may be "no", but it's an opinion based on hindsight and further developments.

There is of course the 3rd point: the perception of Wallin in November 2023 by the majority of observers might have been wrong. Just like it was many times in the past. Just like people were wrong rating Michael Grant 2nd or 3rd best heavyweight in the world in 2000. It doesn't change the fact that he was widely viewed as such. We can't take away credit from Lewis for destroying his number 1 rated contender cause we now don't think he actually was that.

 

I have no beef with you changing your opinion. We do it all the time. I'm just using it to prove the point - even people who considered Wallin a Top 10 heavyweight at the time, might have changed their opinion on it in hindsight. That's it. It doesn't change the fact that they held this opinion, which proves the perception (which might have been wrong) at the time.

 

They're not different at all, because you're using purely rankings to defend your point.

The title thread was "do you believe Otto Wallin WAS a top 10 heavyweight of the world". The overwhelming answer from the forum has been no.

Now if you believe he was because you think the rankings are perfectly trustworthy, fine, but I'd expect you to hold that same standard for other fighters.

But many believe the rankings weren't accurate and gave solid reasoning for this. That is also valid.

 

Wow, it’s surprising that Wallin still has die-hard fans despite he was only an average boxer even in his prime.

 

Ratings are a reflection of public opinion at the time. They are not the only thing that we should consider when it comes to the analysis tho and I provided multiple examples of opinions from the time, including from this forum.

The thread was created cause some individuals just can't phantom that AJ beat Wallin when Otto was perceived as the Top 10 guy. Like I said, the perception might have been wrong, but it was what it was. Just like the perception that Grant was the number 1 contender to Lewis in 2000.

 

To get to the point some are making the point should really be titled"did the forum"or "did boxing fans?"

 

Again, that's not what the topic is about. It is asking if you believed he was a top ten heavyweight.

Some AJ fans are using a fair bit of mental gymnastics to justify it, but most objective observers seem to agree that he was not (as per the poll), and the ranking was given to him prematurely off the back of a loss against Fury (despite Wallin blatantly fouling in the fight to try and force a stoppage).

Beyond that, he had no notable victories at that point. An acceptable tune up for AJ, sure, but let's not pretend he was a legitimate top ten opponent at any given time.

The title is very clear, and it's directed at the reader with a poll. It's why I feel the rankings defense falls a little short, but I get that some will prefer to use that metric (even if that magically goes out the window for other fighters).

 

I don't give Lewis credit for Grant because I believe the evidence points to him not being top 10.

That's the reasonable course of actions of the ratings were actually wrong which I think they were