Current Deontay Wilder vs. Prime Otto Wallin

Wilder top 10

 

"Wilder who doesn't fight well going back"

This is a myth. He dominated Stiverne who tried to pressure him, dominated Arreola, Duhaupas tried to pressure. Ortiz 1 had him going backward more than forward. Breazeale and Helenius tried to push him back and got nuked in 1. If you walk onto Wilder's punches that's a good matchup for him. He also stopped Miller in sparring and sent him to the hospital. Only Fury threaded the needle before Wilder was shot, and even then with great peril and difficulty in fight 3.

Wallin is the kind of guy Wilder beat in his title run but it usually wasn't a 1 round blowout, or even a win inside 4. Stiverne 1 went all 12, Molina 9, Duhaupas 11, Szpilka 9, Arreola 8, Washington 5, Ortiz 1 10, Fury 1 all 12, Ortiz 2 7. That's 9 of his 11 title wins/defences. And this was a prime Wilder, not the shot to sh*t version post-Fury 3, and then 40+. The 40+ version wouldn't have made 6 defences and got to Ortiz. Molina lost in 8 to Breazeale, Gassiev would have beat at least a few of Wilder's defences too, so top 15-20 HW Wallin wasn't that bad.

 

Wilder was mainly an underdog (less than 2/1 in Britain) because he got shut out by Parker, KO'd in 5 by Zhang, and was rightly considered shot to pieces. Had he fought Chisora pre-Parker he'd have been a heavy favourite regardless of the 2nd and 3rd Fury fights, because Chisora is not Fury. Fury has far more weapons in his arsenal, beyond roughhousing on the inside.

I'm convinced 29 year old Gassiev would have beaten some of Wilder's title challengers. Guys like Molina, Duhaupas, Szpilka, Arreola, Washington, Stiverne and Breazeale could all lose to him. Being a high level cruiser goes a certain way at HW. And of course Wallin beat Breazeale wide.

40+ Wilder's right hand doesn't have a lot of power any more and he'd struggle to land it against a top 15-20 level guy showing him movement, with a decent chin, conditioning and determination.

Even in the Joshua fight, Wallin wasn't doing that badly in the first three or four rounds. Joshua "only" had him outlanded 32-21 after 4, and 22-16 after 3. Joshua was a better technical boxer than Wilder and in his prime.

 

Solid post and well written.

 

"Gassiev hasn't proven anything"

He beat titlists Lebedev, Wlodarczyk and Dorticos at cruiser, dropping all of them and stopping the latter two. He went the distance with Usyk. I don't believe he was shot at 29 when Wallin beat him 5 years later. He's KO'd a bunch of HW journeymen in recent years. His career is still ongoing.

Take Molina: what's the evidence he beats Gassiev? His best win was stopping 39 Adamek in 10. He has 9 KO defeats, including to the likes of Babic, not just the Arreola's and Breazeale's. What did Eric Molina prove?

Gassiev was significantly more competitive with Wallin than Breazeale. Arreola said he hated sparring Gassiev. The 2nd Stiverne fight was a joke, one of the worst defences you'll ever see. I can't see Szpilka's chin holding up against Gassiev's power for 12 rounds. Molina and Szpilka were cruiserweights in their early pro careers.

Wallin's the same level as the majority of Wilder's WBC defences, perhaps slightly better. At his best, he's a top 15-20 guy. If he'd been a bum, Fury would have dropped and stopped him like Schwarz, and he wouldn't have outboxed Breazeale (schooling) and Gassiev over 24 rounds without a KD.

It's more a biological analysis than technical: after a certain amount of age and wear, all fighters can be beaten by a Kevin McBride or a Jake Paul, let alone a Wallin. My technical analysis is that Wallin could box fairly well with movement for 12 rounds, he was durable, determined to win at his best and a southpaw, which would be a bad matchup for a gunshy 40+ Wilder who was shot and schooled more than 2 years prior against Parker. If Wilder had anything much left he'd have destroyed Herndon in a round or two, not gone 7 and needed the ref to step in. Wilder performed better against Chisora but we're all aware that styles make fights and the styles are totally different, so it's not decisive.

The only reason you're ragging on Wallin is he's one of Joshua's best wins since 2018. And Joshua's resume is obviously overrated. But there's no need to overstate it. You said for instance that it's been a long time since Joshua beat a "Makhmudov level guy" but what has Mak done? Got stopped in 4 by Kabayel and 8 by Vianello, best win is probably Takam (a light puncher whose best win was a very old Tony Thompson, when Takam was prime) on the cusp of 42. Wallin's a better win than that, and one could easily argue old Helenius too. Even Ngannou has a case, despite only 2 fights and no official wins.

 

Wallin's prime ended with the Joshua beating. He's scared, now.

 

...Wallin had a prime? Who did he beat?

 

Breazele and Gassiev, which isn't bad.

 

Idk, says more about how bad they were than anything else.

 

Better than the Whyte and Franklin that Itauma beat, and yet I have to listen to his ridiculous hype train every night.

 

Itauma is 22 years old and still a prospect. Wallin isn't and wasn't.

 

The gap between peak Gassiev at cruiser and Gassiev vs Wallin is 5 years, not 10.

I'm saying that a guy who goes 111-117 with Fury, 118-110 with Breazeale, and 116-113 with Gassiev, without suffering a KD or another loss in his first 28 fights, is a credible top 15-20 HW.

Twice-beaten, considering retirement Wallin losing to old Chisora by decision, and then old Wilder beating an older Chisora by decision, doesn't mean prime Wallin can't decision an old or even older Wilder. This isn't strange at all given the history of the sport. None of them are top 10 level HWs anyway.