30 title defenses automatically becomes the greatest of all time ?

You are presupposing that it has never happened.

Depending on how you look at it, John L Sullivan or George Dixon might have hit that number.

 

And both don't show up in lists other than maybe John L in the occasional top 20/30.

 

George Dixon has a claim for top 20/30 p4p all time and top 5 FW all time.

 

I can't come to think of a weaker claim to lineal at HW tbh. You of course have the occassions when a champion has retired, but Charles and Holmes were only considered lineal when they defeated the previous champ in a comeback. And even if you consider it enough when Charles beat Walcott there wasn't someone like Vitaly active at the time. Nor when Schmeling beat Sharkey or Patterson beat Moore.

EDIT: Forgot Burns vs Hart. But Hart had beat Johnson. Controversial, but officially he had.

 

@Greg Price99 I'd like your take on this and this is just to make an interesting conversation BTW.

Some criticism I have heard about Louis is that he only defended his title against 2 black contenders Walcott, Charles.

Now do you think that in anyway the fact that Louis didn't defend his title against more black contenders that there is some criticism that could be made there ?

Now my question is basically.

1. Was there any real notable black contenders Louis missed out on ? I'm not the most clued up on that era.

2. Was his management you think looking more towards fighting white fighters because there was more money to be made ?

Again just for reference i have Louis as the number 2 Heavyweight of all time and I highly respect him I'm just putting forth an interesting debate about his reign.

 

Heh DP, firstly, whilst Louis did defend his title against 2 x black contenders, they were JHL and JJW. Louis challenged for Charles title following the formers retirement. To answer your questions:

1. Yes, Jimmy Bivins and Elmer Ray. However, only 2 x black contenders where Ring ranked #1 HW contender during Louis's reign. Bivins, who was #1 contender during Louis's 2.5 year hiatus during WW2 and JJW, who he defended against twice. I think Elmer Ray was certainly a notable contender right at the back end of Louis's reign, but he fought JJW twice instead.

2. It's possible it entered their thinking at some point, but it's mostly because the majority of the top contenders throughout most of Louis's reign were white.

 

Cheers Greg appreciate the reply.

 

Anytime, mate.

 

Wlad has one of the strongest claims to the lineage ever. He basically won the elimination tournament, beat the number 1 HW in the world in 2006, was the first one to unify 2 titles after the last lineal champion retired, beat number 3 as a number 1 twice in 2009 and 2011, beat number 2 in 2013, again beat number 2 in 2014, was the universally recognized champion, was considered undisputed even without 4 major belts and beat every top contender of the era who was willing to face him. The definiton of the champion who restored the lineage.

P.S. Holmes was considered THE champ as early as when Weaver beat Tate for the WBA belt.

 

Stop it.

 

I'll never not find hilarious the obsession some of the guys in this forum have for Mr Big Teddy Bear Hugs

 

How are things that happened after Chagaev relevant to how strong Wlad's claim to lineage was right after beating said Chagaev?

And anyhow it's a joke to say he had one of the strongest claim to the lineage while Vitaly was still out there. In fact there hadn't been a case of not facing the other top guy out there since Dempsey-Wills.

Yes, by default after Vitaly retired but by no stretch of the imagination before then.

 

By beating Chagaev Wlad won the elimination tournament of all top guys from last 3 years when Vitali was retired. Vitali wasn't a returning lineal champion so couldn't jump in line by beating Peter whom Wlad already beat and Gomez. Vitali was also active only for 4 years out of over 9 when Wlad was a title holder and champion. And he wouldn't face Wlad.

 

So when has not facing the other top guy happened for four years for a lineal champion since Dempsey?

Vitaly was The Ring Champion when injury made him retire the first time, had beaten a guy that smoked Wlad and even coming back in his late 30's after 4 years out he beat Peter easier than Wlad had. He was the guy to beat. Hadn't they been brothers we woudn't even have this discussion.

 

Because he was the best HW on the planet for 12 years. People like winners.