No Ezzard Charles got knocked down 14 times by renowned HW punchers Jimmy Bivins and Lloyd Marshall. Of all the ATG HW lineal champs Ezzards the one with the lightest chin. Whether Ezzards chin was good and we're grading him on a curve there hes not really capable of enduring a fight with someone like Joe Frazier.
I should imagine @Fergy was talking about the c.185lbs Charles from Marciano 1, to make a comparison between Joe and Rocky. Or perhaps the 180lbs+ Charles from his HW prime, i.e. around JJW 1 to Louis. There's an outside chance he was thinking of prime Charles, around 175lbs when he beat most people's pick for the #2 LHW of all time, Archie Moore, a 33/34-year old veteran of over 100-fights, but with his entire 10-year reign ahead of him, 3 out 3, once by 10-0 shutout and another by stoppage. There is no chance he was referring to the underdeveloped, 160-odd lbs embryo that lost to Marshall and Bivins, defeats he avenged multiple times to both once he was a grown up.
The KDs included fights Charles won. Your assessment ignores Archie Moores ulcers and surgery and his unique health situation. Charles did not shut out Moore the first time because he was that much better. "There is no chance he was referring to the underdeveloped, 160-odd lbs embryo that lost to Marshall and Bivins, defeats he avenged multiple times to both once he was a grown up". At the time of the Bivins loss Charles was 30-2 and 6-1-1 against top 10 LHWs. He was 3-0 against LHW world champions with the wins over Maxim being at HW. Charles was 1 of 4 fighters selected for the duration LHW tournament. Its funny how when fighters lose at that age they are an embryo but when they win like Mike Tyson they are the wrathful hand of god. Charles actually got the first KD in his Bivins loss. Its not like he didn't show up. He came to fight but got hit and couldn't handle it. The same would happen if he fought Frazier.
When Charles won the title in June of 49 he was 181 3/4 lbs. He was not a big puncher as a heavyweight but essentially a boxer puncher not a dancer like an Ali he stood in front of his man. Does anyone out there really believe a 181 lbs man is gonna stand and fight the buzz saw that was the 205 prime Frazier and have a chance to win or even just last 15??? If you do I respectfully disagree.
I suspect you are the least adept poster on the entire forum at determining when fighters were prime and when they weren't. E.g. saying a prime Tyson couldn't stop Wlad in a round because he didn't stop Lewis. You're either disengenous, clueless or both. Moore was fine, he was beating some brilliant boxers around the time, Charles was just a level above. Charles was 21 when he lost and barely over 160lbs. It's obvious he wasn’t yet a fully fledged LHW nor a mature man, physically, but rather still a boy. A boy brilliant enough to beat ATG MWs and world class LHWs, but not yet ATG LHWs. That came later with clean sweeps in multiple fight series against each against Moore, Bivins and Marshall, from the age of 22 onwards.
I get Charles was 21 but if a fighter gets thrown into the fire and wins its hard to say they weren't ready when they lose at a level their results warranted them being at. People can say Fernando Vargas was too young to fight Trinidad and De La Hoya. He beat 4 prime world champions in 5 fights. If we say he wasn't ready because of his age why have the fights? He wasn't Moses Itauma here and neither was Charles. "I suspect you are the least adept poster on the entire forum at determining when fighters were prime and when they weren't." This insult might have actually prompted self reflection if you didn't follow it with excusing a Mike Tyson loss. I do not wish to take lectures on this from the Mike Tyson defense league. "Moore was fine, he was beating some brilliant boxers around the time, Charles was just a level above." Those 3 fights happened at the most favorable time for Ezzard and fight 2 and 3 were close if you move that trilogy forward a few years Moore could have won it. I'm not saying Moore is better just that Fight 1 the shutout doesn't clearly prove Ezzards on another level or even better. If those fights had happened a few years later and Moore won the trilogy the same excuse would be valid for Charles because he declined so early. Example I think Charles is way better then Marciano for example yet Marciano beat him twice because he fought Charles at the right time. If you think this is a double standard with the whole Ezzard v Bivins/Marshall thing I'm not claiming they were on another level or that them fighting earlier didn't favor Bivins/Marshall. I most often cite those fights as part of my argument why Ezzard Charles shouldn't be in the 175 GOAT convo. Which he shouldn't. And here i'm bringing them up to show that Ezzards chin wasn't good for a great HW. Which it wasn't. Ezzard was better at HW when he packed on more weight. But Charles was still often fighting bloated 175s at HW. Surviving Bivins and Marshall with more weight isn't going the distance with Joe Frazier. Even if I accepted the whole Charles 3-0 Moore=Charles>Moore at LHW I disagree strongly with the idea Moore would otherwise be the LHW GOAT. The divisions had too many great fighters for that before WW2 who accomplished too much.
Charles was a formidable fighter at 21, but not physically mature and not yet prime. That much is obvious and indisputable. Moore was 33/34 and a veteran of over 100 fights when he fought Charles. He was probably already past his physical prime, though Moore has the greatest longevity in the history of the sport. I agree he'd have beaten Charles several years later at HW because of his greater longevity, but best LHW Charles beats best LHW version of Moore and best HW Charles beats any version of Moore. I rank Lewis clearly above Tyson but it has nothing to do with their fight, Tyson was shot. For you to cite that version of Tyson as prime says everything any other posters needs to know about you. You're in no unpleasant, but you are bat**** crazy.
Charles makes it to a points loss . Joe would keep at him and Charles didn't hit hard enough to slow him down. .good fight
It is obviously possible. While I rate Marciano a bit higher than Frazier, Frazier had the faster hands, and that might be the difference.
Prime is arbitrary but you've confliated prime with absolute peak. Something which every fighter only hits for a small fraction of their career. I had a whote diatrive planned but instead I'll just say this I don't believe in designating fighters contending for titles in their 30s "shot". There needs to be taking years off, a tangible decline in results, medical history something else there besides "they aren''t as good as they used to be". I do not believe in questioning if someones career is done after 1 or 2 competitive losses at the world level. And I'm consistant about that. I don't throw fighters into ongoing traffic after a competitive loss. Moore didn't have a physical prime and his longevity has a medical explanation. He had a unique case because of the ulcers and the the 1940s major surgery he had. If someone has chronic pain or is disabled in their prime and you take it away when they are declining you can reverse engineer a fighters decline(for awhile) because they are the best they've ever felt and can do things they could never do before. Which is the opposite of what a normal fighter would be experiencing. Like Ezzard Charles at 30 was losing the ability to do stuff he could do at 25. Moore was getting the ability to do things he never could before in his late 30s. Eventually Moore would lose that but the whole process was moved back.
I think Frazier would be able to put him away at that point in Marciano 1 where Charles starts to fade at the end, Marciano kept up with his unrelenting punching but Frazier would be a bit more measured and able to turn up some hotter heat
He survived 30 rounds of Marciano and Louis in their first fights. I’m thinking he could survive Frazier who hit didn’t hard as either. Frazier could catch him of course. The Charles that fought Louis had it all really. Could fight inside and out had some of the best foot work of any HW champ ever. He reminds me of Holyfield without roids. His chin was an enigma in that he could fight with hard hitters like Lewis and Tyson and Bowe than get stopped by Toney,