Update on boxrec has Marciano’s tallest opponent at 6”5

Just for clarification, LaStarza and Charles were both rnaked #1 by Ring Magazine on the dates of their fights with Marciano.

This makes them eminently justifiable choices as challengers.

As for Valdez I get the idea that he was going to get a title shot if he beat Moore, and that if anything Marciano's team were more reluctant to face Moore, but he made a fuss about it and forced their hand.

 

There were big men around but none of them could make it to the top of the division. Archie Moore beat 6"3 Nino Valdes 2X, he also beat 6"5 James J. Parker, 6"4 Alejandro Lavovante, and 6"5 Alberto Lovell and 6"2 Bob Baker. Joe Walcott beat 6"5 Hein Ten Hoff and 6"5 Johnny Shkor and Ezzard Charles beat 6"3 Coley Wallace and 6"4 Johnny Haynes

point is the smaller guys were better fighters - Mike DeJohn who was 6"4 was beaten by 5"10 Jimmy Bivins who also beat 6"3 Willie Bean among others

Nino Valdes lost to 5"11 Archie McBride in 1948 and most felt Archie McBride beat him again in 1954 when Nino WSD - Nino was also beaten by 5"10 176 lb. Harold Johnson in 1952 and 5"11 180lb Archie Moore in 1953 - after Nino lost again to Archie Moore in 1955, he fought again that year losing badly to 5"10 183 lb. Bob Satterfield who also ko'd 6"3 Cleveland "Big Cat Williams who was 35-1-1 at the time of the Big Cat ko, 5"10 Satterfield weighed 176 lbs.

We know what Dempsey did to 6"6 260lb. Willard and what Joe Louis did to 6"6 250 lb. Primo- 6"6 250 Buddy Baer and Abe Simon

Usyk just beat a few Giants soundly - Fury- Duboise -Joshua- X2 and Usyk is 6"2

Big men are better last few decades because of Super Heavyweight division but Lewis- Fury- DD - Joshua and the rest didn't actually get beaten by Giants

In fact, Andy Ruiz is lucky if he is 6" despite what they list him at - pictures don't lie

 

Any of those guys big punchers who weighed 250lbs?
Williams was 6ft 2 in and a last minute sub he weighed 201lbs for that fight,That's a cruiser weight.He was also just 21years old.

 

Especially now his reach is getting shorter by the day. It was always listed as 68” now it’s down to 66”. He’ll soon be reduced to a torso.
Rocky De Milo!

 

And Usyk is 6 ft 3 in and 226lbs,bigger than Baer,Liston, and Ali.

 

Not more than the ratings organization sanctioning his belt.

 

Apart from Rex Layne who got his ranking by receiving a highly dubious decision over Charles, which Ring ranked fighter did Lastarza ever beat?
Lastarza had won and lost against journeyman lhvy Rocky Jones,
and won and lost against Buccerroni a puffed up LHVY who was beaten by Jackson and Neuhaus, both ko victims of Valdes.

Rollie got a split dec over Layne and was ushered in for a title shot.
How was he more deserving of one than Valdes?

 

So many myths about Valdes' failure to get a title shot.

He would have had a shot if he'd given Charles a rematch and beaten him.

Charles never seriously pursued a rematch with Valdes. There was no strong reason to believe that Valdes could earn a title shot by beating him a second time, any more than he did by beating 5th ranked Heinz Neuhaus or 5th ranked Tommy Jackson.

He would have had a shot if he'd beaten Archie Moore in 55.

Again, there were never any guarantees that this fight was going to lead to a title shot for the winner. Moore's own title shot wasn't confirmed until after his light heavyweight title defence against Bobo Olson two months later.

He would have had a shot if he'd beaten Bob Satterfield.

This just makes no sense. Marciano was already preparing for his final defence against Moore by the time Valdes fought Satterfield, and anyway a win against such a notoriously erratic opponent wouldn't have done much for Valdes's reputation.

"Most" people thought Valdes lost to McBride.

No they didn't. This was a majority decision with two judges scoring Valdes a clear winner and the third making it a draw. The Associated Press also had Valdes winning.

 

Cockell got ranked by beating two past their sell by date men, Mathews and Lastarza.He didn't belong in the ring with Marciano and every single boxing scribe,both sides of the Atlantic knew it and said so,Jimmy Cannon,Peter Wilson,Arthur Daley,and Red Smith castigated Weill for making the mismatch.Nobody is telling me Cockell deserved a shot over Valdes,and when those two did meet Cockell was obliterated. The fight only drew 18,000 the smallest gate for any Marciano title fight and even less than the Marciano v Mathews one.

 

He said he was 6"2 but

He said he was 6"2 but an inch here of there no Biggy but the difference is the weight training and weight gain that heavyweight people started in the 80's I remember many lean fests and there are new ways of gaining weight Usyk was a dominant champion in the under 200 lb. division but he did gain 26 lbs. and still look solid and strong and it is a testament to modern technique but we also still have some overweight fat men fighting who could be in better shape. I just saw Jared Big baby lose 50lbs and still weight 300lb and he had very good stamina and one of his best weapons is leaning on his opponent. At 300lbs he really can't crack and egg and we did have the 7" 300lbs Nicolai Valuev who was conditioned but not much of a puncher.
I think the modern methods of weight gain if not excessive can be good, James toney at 5'9 and 160lbs. moved up well until he stopped running and became a bit obsessive in fat - he was a fit guy when he stopped Evander with body shots. Usyk did it well and beat alleged 6"9 Fury 6"6 Joshua, 6"5 DDD so not too bad for a man about Ali's size.

From Dempsey to Ali only a few big men made the grade Willard- Primo- Champs and it was not until Foreman who claimed to be 6"3 did we have a Champ that size - Ali says he was 6"2 not 6"3 and his tallest opponent was Earnie Terrell at 6"5 until Foreman.
We do know Ali who weighed 206lbs when he ko'd Liston in 1 moved up in weight, he weighed 225 lbs. when I watched him beat Earnie Shavers in MSG in 77

There were big men in the golden era from 1920 to 1970's but only a few became Champions and a few made it to be contenders.

 

Marciano fought his # 1 contender 5 out of 6 times - the Cokel fight was against his number 2 and we know Marciano was recovering from his split nose with Charles but even so Archie Moore was the fighter who beat Valdes 2X and also beat Bob Baker (who beat Valdes 2X) and Clarence Henry and Harold Johnson (who beat Valdes) The public wanted the Moore fight who was considered the most dangerous skilled puncher.

judging by Valdes's record against smaller men = he lost to 5'11 180 lb. Archie Moore in 1954 then lost to him again in 1955, he lost to 5"10 183 lb. Bob Satterfield in 1955 and lost to 5"10 176 lb. Harold Johnson. Valdes went on to lose to 6" 192 lb. Eddie Machen in April 1956 and again KO8 in July 1956, so Valdes was not successful vs shorter, lighter men.

 

But none of them were 185lbs ,5 ft 10.5 in ,with a 68in reach ,and cut prone skin.

 

Some were smaller like Satterfield -Johnson- and lighter but none of them hit like Marciano with both hands or had the stamina or determination, will or relentlessness for 15 rds. - that is why he was 49-0 with 43ko's and people are still digging to find someone he didn't fight but Rocky fought the best, his #1 contender 5 out of 6 times (unheard of) Never drew the color line, and like Joe Louis and Ali he was the best of his time.

 

Simple, whatever the rights and wrongs of it, he was still the #1 Ring Contender.

No other justification needed.