The last great heavyweight....!

Usyk is an all time great heavyweight denying it only leads to more difficulties historically

 

Tell the Usyk fans that always brings up weight in his fights.

I don't pay too much attention to it personally but everyone else seems to.
And a lot of the guys Wlad fought are at the top of their sport, so obviosuly they most have had those things too. to some level

 

I'm sure there will be many that agree with you.

Alas, I won't necessarily be jumping on that bandwagon.

 

Well this is a case in point. Why does relative size matter when the difference in skill level is of greater importance, as this man Usyk has reminded us?

When I look at Wladimir's opposition, I see that he faced a good number of unproven types and others that were barely proven. Even those who had shown some promise were a couple of years removed from having had a significant win.

This doesn't mean the wins are fundamentally bad wins; just that they're historical worth is questionable. At the same time, the modest level of challenge available to him meant that his performance ceiling didn't reach a high point.

Any chance he had to raise that ceiling he blew with the excessive use of his Huggy-Wlad technique.

 

Usyk and Wlad are great.

 

Usyk is clearly a great anyone denying it is just ignoring reality. No one at HW has accomplished this much as quickly as he has while giving up as much size. Same with Wlad he was one of the most dominant and long reigning champs in HW history.

 

Yes we all know you're an irrational hater who doesn't like fighters who are clearly better then your favs. No need to keep proving it.

 

Top-20.

 

Definitely Wlad. Usyk may become one tho.

 

that sort of is the curse of being TOO dominant.
Imagine this. Imagine if Usyk had beaten Klitscko. Then he beats Fury,Joshua,Wilder Dubois. Usyk would be in the same conversation. It tends to be easier to call people bums in heavyweight because they usually fight in one weight class, you can't prove yourslef much against anyone of note if there is a dominant champion.

at the lower weigth divisions,you can gain some sort of pedigree easier

 

Wladimir Klitschko

Usyk has the ability needs a couple more defenses.

 

I don’t think Usyk needs more defenses. He already has more than most and against the best of the era. H2h he is one of the best I’ve ever seen. He’s already way out of prime. So anything going forward is whatever. His cruiser wins matchup with anyone in the hw division historically his opponents were mostly 200+ fight night.

 

That's the macro-level view of things, yes.

But it doesn't answer the more involved question of what that dominance actually meant in real terms, which depends a lot on the extent to which the contenders of the era had proven themselves.

I disagree. A dominant champion does not prevent top-rated fighters and potential contenders just outside the rankings from competing with each other to produce proven contenders.

The bigger problem occurs when the scheduling of Heavyweight fights follows a seasonal blockbuster pattern, with bouts occurring annually or not at all.

Meanwhile, the remainder of the field may (or may not) apply their own holding pattern to ensure they don't lose their place in the pecking order. So, glacial movement among the ranks of fighters who either aren't fighting each other or getting around to it too late causes a shallowing of the division; not necessarily short of talent, but lacking enough competitive results to demonstrate real depth.


If Usyk had beaten Klitschko, Fury, Joshua, Wilder and Dubois, that would obviously be a much stronger résumé. But the issue is not simply "people call heavyweight opponents bums because one champion dominated." The issue is that many of those names did not establish themselves against a broad enough field of each other and the next tier.

Fury never fought Joshua. Joshua never fought Wilder. Wilder's record before he met Fury was limited. Fury's own résumé before Klitschko was light at world level – he had useful wins, but not against Ring-rated heavyweights. Dubois has some merit, but not enough to carry significant historical weight on his own. So, when Usyk beats these men, the wins matter, but they come from a division that has never been properly sorted out below the top.

That is true to an extent because fighters at lower weights can often build pedigree across multiple divisions. But, based on the above, any division can become stagnant if it allows silos of competition to form, which can easily happen – and has happened – because of fragmentation of the championship structure.

 

I am assuming a great heavyweight classes minimum top 15?

 

Uysk is well respected (more so P4P) and Wlad is polarizing figure on here for many reasons which is too long to go into. I don't really buy that them being Eastern European is a major factor for the vast majority of serious fans in these all time rankings.