Daniel Dubois vs Rocky Marciano

This isn’t true. I and many others hold Usyk, Wlad, Lewis, Holyfield etc in high regards. Usyk may be the best h2h fighter ever. It’s just some of you are obsessed with degrading Marciano. Almost every other HW ever is good enough to compete but not him. It’s an odd stance from many of you.

 

Double like. Methinks that fellow protests much too much.

 

Agreed, there are have been great heavyweights in recent times, but we have to be honest about who is and isnt, regardless if we are "civilians" or not which btw 99% of fans are.

 

When he says Rocky isn't a great athlete he doesn't mean relative to the general population lol, he means relative to other ATG great heavyweights. P4P fighters tend to be so because they have some godly athletic abilities that helps them overcome size differences. A fighter like Mike Tyson for example, who's 5'10 with a 5'11 wingspan similar to Rocky, has GOAT level mass for his frame, reflex speed, hand speed, foot speed, punching power and chin that would helps him overcome large size disadvantages and be competitive with athletic super heavies.

Rocky doesn't have any of these things. His ATG stamina is his only scalable athletic attribute. He's 30lbs lighter than Mike whilst being nowhere near as fast, powerful, or coordinated and has much worse cut resistance and punch resistance. Which is fine btw, I'm not poo pooing him for this, just how it is. Same with Floyd Patterson, who is much more explosively athletic and a better pure boxer than Rocky but he doesn't have the power or chin to trouble any super heavyweights either.

It's pretty silly to pretend that just because they both have the word Heavyweight before their title that there's no difference in H2H ability between heavyweights of the early 20th century, the mid to late 20th century and 2015 to now.

But some old folks just can't help fantasize about Bob Fitzsimmons knocking out Anthony Joshua in one punch lol.

 

“He who works with his hands is a laborer.
He who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman.
He who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist.
I am a laborer of boxing.”

~Daniel Dubois

 

He needs to go labor a lot longer and then come back.....maybe.

 

I don't think Jack Johnson, Willard, Dempsey, Wills, Tunney, Sharkey, Carnera, Braddock, Patterson are competing either due to size and evolution of the sport. I also have serious question marks of how well a 200lb Joe Louis is likely to be able to do if we transport him through time into the 80s/90s/00s/10s. I don't think Liston would be any type of killer if moved to the 90s/00s just the way he was.

In reality these boxers would be stronger packing on more muscle if they were competing and training in this era. The level of strength they had in their eras wouldn't be enough in the post 60s eras

It happens in other sports. No one in their right mind is picking Jesse Owens to beat Usain Bolt or even Asafa Powell if he time travelled into 2008. No one would pick him to win against today's slower 100m runners either.

 

Rocky today would be a small LHW not too dissimilar in stature to Canelo.. i think size would matter here.. as great as Rocky is Dubois is probably too much .. though he did get clipped by Lerena who's not a big HW & isn't really much of a puncher either.. so its feasible Rocky could crack him & his stamina might break Dubois too.. but Dubois is 6'5 250lbs & athletic.. overall I'd say common sense dictates that these fellas are just too big.. but in an ATG & P4P sense Marciano is light years ahead of Dubois.

 

Somebody actually did a thread on the runners explaining it’s all equipment and when taken into account they Owens and Bolt are practically equal with Bolt winning by a hair. Equipment and modern work out methods aren’t skill. If you told me Dempsey or Johnson or Baer would compete with their skill set I would disagree. The sport advanced quickly once film was introduced and studied. It only took a few years. But it only peaked so much. I agree all the old time fighters would have to take PEDs to compete but it would only make them better. I judge fighters by their skill set and assuming they’re fighting on equal ground (both prime, same gloves,same access to training rules etc). Imagine certain fighters with no PEDS? Would you even know who Dubois was in the 50s with his skill set and only weighing 215? Probably not. Can you make a case we just don’t know how Marciano, Ali, or Louis would be on PEDs? Sure but their work ethic and competitiveness and ability leads me to think they would be fine.

 

Because you keep missing a vital point that somehow keeps flying over your head everytime this topic is brought up.

Marciano would not be considered a Heavyweight in the modern era.

He'd be considered a Light Heavyweight/Cruiserweight.

How many successful Heavyweights in the last 50 years have become champion with Marciano's size and attributes there's your answer.

It's not degrading Marciano it's just just being realistic he hasn't got the size, attributes, or style to beat modern Super Heavyweights.

He should be pitted in realistic match ups against the likes of Bivol, Beterbiev, Benavidez, those are the type of modern fighters he'd facing off against.

Not 240+ pound Super Heavyweights.

You can be a fan of a fighter but also be realistic and have some common sense.

 

And he would a somewhat small LHW too. He could make an earnest campaign at Supermiddle

 

I also don't understand the thought that Marciano, in the modern era, would do some complicated multi-round cycle of PEDs and modern bulking up training, balanced with technical and athletic training (which would take years and requires you already being a high tier fighter with resources) to get to a theoretical 210+, when it would be much more simple for him to simply cut 10lbs of water to fight at LHW, maybe even SMW with modern cutting methods. We see in both boxing and mma now guys that cut 'only' 10lbs are considered small to normal size for their division. I personally don't think there's a single current person around those weights who would beat Rocko. If he was around today Marciano would be going for the p4p glory imo.

 

Agreed and what people also don't into account is that Marciano being heavier wouldn't necessarily be to his benefit.

It could seriously effect his stamina putting on 20 pounds or so which would take away one of his best assets.

There's no way in the modern era would Marciano's trainers and management consider putting him in the Heavyweight division.

Especially against Heavyweights with on average 7 inch height advantage, 10 inch reach advantage, not to mention the massive weight advantage.

It's just not a realistic scenario.

Marciano as you said would more than likely cut weight and be competing as a Light Heavyweight.

And he'd probably be like the modern day Beterbiev which is not necessarily a bad thing.