My all-time Top 15 HWs' wins against The Ring's Top 10

Bokaj · May 8, 2026

This is another reminder that we have to take an earnest look if Charles is top 10 at HW. Immaculate prime resume and was a top guy in the division for several years after. Some will point to his many losses when he was way past his best, but losses for an over the hill old fighter don't really matter to me.

Greg Price99 · May 8, 2026

JohnThomas1 said: ↑

Amazing thread mate, i applaud. When i mentioned yesterday i was going to do a thread regarding Marciano's defense resume, this was exactly what i was going to do but damn, you've done the lot!

I mentioned Marciano is held to a different standard by some. This showcases why. I'm doing this fast so hopefully don't stuff up too many numbers below mate. If i do I'm sure you will catch me out and i'll be appreciative of any corrections.

In five out of six defenses Marciano has faced the top dog, and in the other he faced the #2. This is insane and the reason why he is rated so highly resume wise by those that do deep dives. It's crazy. Marciano's reign is actually the gold standard regarding time of reign vs quality of opposition, ratings wise. It's beyond reproach as no-one has ever done better even if you hand pick 6 fight stretches. I reckon this is why you've got him so high, obviously.

I've taken out non title defenses between he and Holmes. Sure there were some belt politics about, but Holmes never once faced the next best heavyweight despite his huge number of defenses. He's prolific in the 5-10 category but incredibly bare in the top 5 category and besides missing the next best to himself (you call it "best available opponent") he only matched the second best to himself once, in Cooney. It's a very strong reign at the bottom end but eye openingly bare at the top.

Let expand on from Holmes and look at others. Ali in his first reign has best available opponent x 4. In his second reign he has best available x 1 and #2 x 1. Combined they match Rocky's numbers vs best available and #2. Of course Ali beat a stupendous amount of contenders and top contenders when he wasn't reigning. He also beat ATG opponents. But Rocky's top end, stats wise, is there with Ali.

Joe Louis, he hit the best available opponent a whopping 7 times. He belted his #2 two times. I mean, Joe had a million defenses and Marciano's not much behind those stats.

Lewis has best available x 3 and #2 x one.

Holyfield has best available opponent x 1.

Tyson has 3 x #2 before he finally cornered Spinks and blasted him out as best available. His top end betters Holmes but on the flipside he lacks the longevity and had a bad loss.

Wlad has best available x 3 and 1 x #2. Rocky yet again bests the top end.

As you point out, Frazier's numbers are a little skewed by the Ali claim, like Spinks with Tyson i guess.

Usyk's numbers are nice at this stage. I mean, it probably equates to 1 x #2 and 3 x best available?

This thread probably needs to be a sticky. It can be added to over time and is an enormous asset and will be forever @McGrain @Rumsfeld
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This is post notable for it's quality, even in a thread full of excellent posts.

slash · May 8, 2026

You ranked Holyfield at #6, going by that criteria. That's about right, all the way.

mattdonnellon · May 8, 2026

Firstly, and chiefly, great work!
As regards Johnson, I suggest a few amendments;
George Gardner (Top 10) ok
Denver Ed Martin (Top 10) ok
Sam McVey (Top 10) ok
Sandy Ferguson (Top 10) ok
Sam McVey (Top 10) ok
Frank Childs (Top 10) ok -1902
Denver Ed Martin (Top 10) ok
Joe Jennette (Top 10)
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Joe Jennette (Top 5) 1906
Joe Jennette (Top 10) 1906
Sam Langford (Top 10)
Joe Jennette (Top 10) 1906
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Fireman Jim Flynn (Top 10)
Tommy Burns (champion)
Al Kaufman (best available opponent)
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Stanley Ketchel (Top 10)
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James J. Jeffries (returning championship claimant)
Fireman Jim Flynn (Top 3)
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MaccaveliMacc · May 19, 2026

BUMP!

ikrasevic · May 19, 2026

MaccaveliMacc said: ↑

13. Oleksandr Usyk
Anthony Joshua (contender number 1)
Anthony Joshua (number 2)
Tyson Fury (champion)
Tyson Fury (best available opponent)
Daniel Dubois (best available opponent)
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Although I respect that you have YOUR criteria, I don't understand why you put Usyk on the list?
He is not finished with his career yet and can theoretically go up and down the ATG list.

MaccaveliMacc · May 20, 2026

ikrasevic said: ↑

Although I respect that you have YOUR criteria, I don't understand why you put Usyk on the list?
He is not finished with his career yet and can theoretically go up and down the ATG list.
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Cause he's in my Top 15 and I was doing the research for my list,

ikrasevic · May 20, 2026

MaccaveliMacc said: ↑

Cause he's in my Top 15 and I was doing the research for my list,
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What I REALLY wanted to say is:
If Usyk beats Verhofen, Hrgovic and Kabayel by the end of his career (and still retires undefeated); will it stay No.13 on your list?

MaccaveliMacc · May 20, 2026

ikrasevic said: ↑

What I REALLY wanted to say is:
If Usyk beats Verhofen, Hrgovic and Kabayel by the end of his career (and still retires undefeated); will it stay No.13 on your list?
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He has a potential of moving up to Top 10 if he beats 1 or 2 top contenders. You're probably right that we shouldn't rate boxers while they are still fighting, but everyone did that throughout the history of the sport.

ThatOne · Jul 18, 2026

Excellent work.

MaccaveliMacc · Jul 19, 2026

ThatOne said: ↑

Excellent work.
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Thank you.

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