In 5 years people will accept Usyk as the GOAT heavyweight

He was a slight favorite, but it was a common opinion that he was slipping a little bit after his snoozer with Bean.

 

Nobody at the time had a problem that Holmes didn't unify. Later in his career when he started ducking, maybe, but after the Ali win he was viewed as undisputed even without the WBA belt as he had the lineage of it twice over. He also signed for the IBF & WBA unification against Coetzee but the fight fell through.

 

This simply isn’t true.

combination punching is a skill and Usyk isn’t even close to being as good a combination puncher as Ali

Not to mention that objectively Ali beat significantly better opposition.

 

@Dynamicpuncher thought he was slick liking your comment. Got called out by like 5 posters last week for being a bonafide hater.

Usyk throws his combinations from much better angles and is overall better watch his fights at cruiser. Of course at heavy he doesn’t throw as many combos but he’s fighting super heavies vs Ali was fighting cruiser weight size guys.

 

Should be ranked where ? All 3 heavyweights he has beaten don't have stacked enough records to boost his standing any further beyond vaguely top 10

 

You said Fury was the GOAT HW before Usyk gave him a breakdown

 

Must be that birthday. Boxing coaches should scout for babies born on that day. Maybe steal some from the hospital and raise them like cus did with tyson

 

You said Fury would BEAT Usyk. I favored Usyk to win. Go ahead and list the all time HW greats that Usyk beat, none of them qualify

 

We don't know that yet because their resume's are growing. Dubois is going to add a lot of good victories before he's done, and Fury or Joshua is going to get a good boost when one beats the other. Let's talk in five years.

 

I beg to differ on that. Quite the other way around. Holmes was not a popular champ at the time, as he himself will bitterly tell you, and that is because he was perceived as wrecking a division he inherited from guys like Ali and Frazier.

As for Coetzee--massive canard. By the time he claimed he wanted that unification, it would have been for the IBF title--he had already made the title proliferation worse by accepting a belt form the gutter.

I don't know how old you are, but I lived through those times, and there really has been a massive re-write of Holmes' legacy.

 

That is not how things work.

if angles were so important, than Usyk is a better combination puncher than Joe Louis and Mike Tyson. And the truth is he isn’t even close to those guys in terms of combination punching.

Combibation punching isn’t about shw’s. It’s about speed, power, fluidity, accuracy and timing as well as willingness to throw powerful combos

I do not care if Usyk is fighting super heavyweights. Shw’s are not more powerful nor more durable than smaller heavies. Joshua isn’t even close to being as durable as Forwman and Fury isn’t even close to being as hard a hitter as Foreman.

not to mention landing combos on smaller faster fighters with great head movement like Frazier is harder than landing on giants who don’t have that speed and head movement


I have seen plenty of Usyk at cruiser. Yes, he was relatively quick at cruiser. Guess what ? I wouldn’t give him more than an 8 out of 10 on speed. Pre exile Ali is easily a 10 out of 10 on both hand speed and footspeed.

when Ali threw combos, he threw them with full force and with both hands. He was also willing to let go with 5-7 punch combinations in the early rounds in fights, something Usyk rarely does. Watch the 7 punch combo landed on Liston in round 1 of their first fight. I don’t care if Liston is a “cruiser” , he is more powerful and more dangerous than any of Usyks cruiser opponents. Usyk would never take such risks vs such a dangerous fighter so early in a fight.

Ali is a superior combination puncher because he threw hard with both hands and with incredible speed and fluidity. Usyk rarely throws those kind of combos . He sometimes throws 2 hard shots in a six punch combo with the remaining shots being tippy tappy shots

 

I considered him to be on the downside. If was post heart attack, after losing to Moorer and being stopped by Bowe. Even if he had a good Renaissance, it was clear had lost a step.