Rico Verhoeven vs Muhammad Ali

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by PopPellegrino, May 23, 2026.


Verhoeven vs Ali

  1. Verhoeven by PTS

    1 vote(s)
    4.3%

  2. Ali by PTS

    2 vote(s)
    8.7%

  3. Ali by KO/TKO

    14 vote(s)
    60.9%

  4. Verhoeven by KO/TKO

    6 vote(s)
    26.1%
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  1. PopPellegrino

    PopPellegrino Active Member Full Member

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    Ali fought the best in his era; you really can’t argue with that. Usyk has definitely hurt the heavyweight division, even though the division itself is currently in a very good place. I’ve always maintained that the Saudi era has produced the best stretch of heavyweight boxing I’ve ever seen. I’m probably not going to convince you on skill, but my issue with Usyk is more about how he has affected the division than his ability as a fighter. Ali fought four times a year against the best of his era; Usyk has ducked his contemporaries (mandatories) to fight someone who isn't a boxer and has only fought once a year for his entire career. And he couldn't even beat him up properly, which is some type of karmic justice.
     
    PopPellegrino, May 23, 2026
    PopPellegrino, May 23, 2026
    #76
  2. G Man

    G Man Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I dunno mate, a lot of what you claim is down to opinion. My point is, to be quite honest, today's fighters are better. And I am a fan of the old school, I'm just honest. Look at the technicality of the likes of Usyk...no one from the past could comprehend that ****. And I'm an old ****er myself now.
     
    G Man, May 23, 2026
    G Man, May 23, 2026
    #77
  3. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Here's a very much in shape prime Lewis getting one punch sparked out cold or iced by a smaller lower level fighter with substance abuse issues and a much smaller glassy chinned fighter who was KO'd x 2 by a chinny Maskaev

    This content is protected


    Prime Lewis. In shape Lewis. One punch iced out x 2 by smaller or much smaller fighters not a well past prime 39 y/o Lewis vs someone way bigger than him when he came in at a very sluggish career heaviest weight

    Lewis at 37 y/o vs Vitali looked way sharper and more like his usual self than Usyk did tonight and the extra weight did not slow him down or make him near as sluggish as it did to Usyk but that performance is wildly attributed to him being old and past his prime and coming in at a career heaviest weight vs a fighter his own size and you wonder why we get pee'd off with you rose-tinted boxing nostalgists and how unfair you are and selective you are when applying context? :facepalm:

    Unlike Usyk who is always the way or much smaller man at HW, Lewis was a giant of a man and the bigger or much bigger man the vast majority of the time and never outsized like Usyk is all the time at HW

    But, again, none of these fighters are held to the standard Usyk is who is somehow immune to the ageing process, the wear and tear of of over 370 fights amateur and pro fighting at the elite level for the vast majority of his career since first lacing up the gloves, and is not even allowed to have a bad performance when almost 40 and well past his prime vs a giant way bigger than him when coming in at a very slow and sluggish career highest weight, a size disadvantage that Lewis, Ali and so many other greats never came close to giving away, let alone routinely giving away huge size advantages in their entire careers at HW like Usyk has been doing in his at HW in his mid to late 30s :facepalm:
     
    Serge, May 23, 2026
    Serge, May 23, 2026
    #78
  4. TNSNO1878

    TNSNO1878 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lennox turned pro in June 1989, did you expect him to fight Tyson right out of the traps? Williams and McBride beat him in 2004 and 2006, Lewis took him to court (and won) in 1996, nearly a decade earlier. Mike didn't mysteriously surface in 2002, he came out of prison and went right back to it in 1996.

    He knocked out Bruno, reclaimed the WBC title, and then flatlined Seldon in about 90 seconds. He was then contractually obligated to fight Lennox, and avoided it to fight Holyfield. Once he got smashed to bits by Holyfield, he then lost about $4 million to Lennox in court for not fighting him. So again, how did Lennox not make himself known?
     
    TNSNO1878, May 23, 2026
    TNSNO1878, May 23, 2026
    #79
    PopPellegrino likes this.
  5. G Man

    G Man Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ah, so all of a sudden the ages dont match up? How convenient.
     
    G Man, May 23, 2026
    G Man, May 23, 2026
    #80
  6. ubareem

    ubareem Member Full Member

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    Frazier's record is very, uhm... underwhelming (imo). He never fought Norton, Shavers, Young or Lyle either.

    Foreman's resume isn't that deep either, if you analyze it.
     
    ubareem, May 23, 2026
    ubareem, May 23, 2026
    #81
    G Man likes this.
  7. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Frazier missed out on a grand total of 4 guys. Not a big deal considering he had 5 fights vs Ali and Foreman as well as Bugner, Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena

    Foreman's resume is a hell of a lot deeper than Fury or AJ.

    2 X Frazier, Lyle, Moorer, Norton. A damn fine resume.
     
    dmt, May 23, 2026
    dmt, May 23, 2026
    #82
    PopPellegrino likes this.
  8. ubareem

    ubareem Member Full Member

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    Those 4 guys were the top dogs of his era beside Ali and himself. Bonavena, Ellis and Quarry probably wouldn't even be cruiserweights today.

    Norton suffered such terrible KO losses and knockdowns it's hard to place him on an ATG list.

    Lyle could bang, but had very limited skills and lost to Quarry.
     
    ubareem, May 23, 2026
    ubareem, May 23, 2026
    #83
    PopPellegrino likes this.
  9. BustedSaint

    BustedSaint Country Member Full Member

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    Ali could have beaten both of them at their current form.
     
    BustedSaint, May 23, 2026
    BustedSaint, May 23, 2026
    #84
    MarkusFlorez99 and PopPellegrino like this.
  10. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    this makes no sense. You criticized Frazier for not fighting Lyle but completely dismiss Quarry who actually beat Lyle.

    Frazier fought virtually everyone. Lyle and Shavers peaked when Joe was already past it and entangled in repeated match ups with Ali and Foreman.
     
    dmt, May 24, 2026
    dmt, May 24, 2026
    #85
    PopPellegrino likes this.
  11. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    It’s absurd to criticize Frazier for not fighting Shavers


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnie_Shavers

    Shavers turned pro in December 1969 so basically 1970. He didn’t get any major wins until beating Young and Ellis in 1973.

    Frazier fought and lost to Forwman in 1973 so it’s not like he was ducking Shavers.

    Shavers then got brutally stopped by Quarry which set up Frazier Quarry 2. Otherwise Frazier would have faced Shavers in 1974.

    Frazier rematches Ali in 74, beats Quarry who had stopped Shavers and has a tough fight vs a top 10 guy in Bugner.

    he then has brutal third fight vs Ali in 1975 and then gets stopped by Foreman

    when exactly should Frazier have fought shavers? 1974 and 1975 would be the only window but Frazier was busy fighting Ali twice and would have fought Shavers if he didn’t get battered by Quarry.

    Frazier retired in 76. So there was a max 2 year window in which this fight could have been made and didn’t get made due to Shavers losing to quarry
     
    dmt, May 24, 2026
    dmt, May 24, 2026
    #86
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  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Jesus.
     
    JohnThomas1, May 24, 2026
    JohnThomas1, May 24, 2026
    #87
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  13. BustedSaint

    BustedSaint Country Member Full Member

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    A bit of water on the canvas wouldn't have bothered him, and he always gets up if the count goes for 3 days.
     
    BustedSaint, May 24, 2026
    BustedSaint, May 24, 2026
    #88
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
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