Usyk has lost 32 of his last 85 rounds.

Valuev is a radically different stylistic matchup. Wlad had a lot of crap fights when far better were possible, it cannot be seriously denied.

Boente's Valuev quote contains three classic BS excuses which imply ducking. Why do you think he said those things?

 

You still didn't show me who was more deserving of the WBO mandatory position at the time based on merit. I'm beginning to think that you just don't know what you're talking about and can't think of a counter different than complaining for the sake of complaining. Ups.

Yes and that's why it was an upset.

None of them besides Holmes and Foreman beat a guy as good as prime Fury and prime AJ past the age of 39. Usyk is 39 and he barely scrapped by a kickboxer with a record of 1-0.

Well, so I guess ducking a rematch because you're a nutter is also a pathetic excuse, thank you for countering your own argument.

There literally is. If you lose and then win, you're managed to right the wrong. That's how it works. "Running away" - you mean jabbing your opponent's head off so he can't do anything to you in the ring? Right. I guess Lennox Lewis ran from David Tua then. Prime Ruiz and prime Dubois beating AJ has nothing to do with showing how Wlad is overrated, you just made this up. You still didn't show me a 41 year old other than Holmes and Foreman who beat a guy of prime AJ's class.

 

Wlad beat every top contender that was willing to face him. Valuev wasn't one of them. He had some crap fights inbetween, sure, but as shown previously, champions with a lot of title defences tend to have some soft touches. As you said "Louis was famously fighting "a bum a month", and Holmes explicitly tried to get the easiest opponents for the most money while avoiding dangerous contenders". They are both consensus Top 5 HWs of all time, so Wlad is in good company.

 

I dont need to google the wbo rankings and research it heavily to know that boytsovs mandatory position was corrupt. He had beaten no one of any note. He was exposed by Alex Leapai via a 10 round decision loss ffs. He has ties to one of the most corrupt political leaders in the world. Nothing about that ranking was real.

No one that age or older beat anyone as good as Fury because Fury was better than Wlad. It's hard to imagine a fellow big puncher like 41 year old B-side Zhang or Foreman letting Joshua off the hook in the state Wlad had him in, given Ruiz (a light-mid puncher at best) and Dubois did it. Usyk is a speed/stamina fighter so his style ages less well but his career isnt over yet, perhaps he beats Kabayel at 40 and makes Wlad look even worse.

Fury had already beaten Wlad comfortably and had far less to gain by beating him again. Whereas Wlad ducked guys who beat him, or that he beat with controversy. This also isnt some nubulous "Wlad was unmotivated, his wife was depressed" nonsense. Fury was objectively a 30 stone drug addict who didnt care about boxing or even his life. This was not some kind of cover to duck Wlad, the man was severely mentally ill.

A loss is a loss even if you win the rematch. It is like saying "justice is done" after imprisoning a murderer. People say it to uphold a social fiction when in reality you cant take a murder back or "repay the debt". Joshuas loss to Ruiz is a stain that stays with him and is seen as exhibit A for why he isnt a great. Running from the little untrained fat man in the remach made AJ look even worse because at least Lennox Lewis poleaxed Rahman after getting caught first time.

 

Why did Boente say the things he did? Why did he imply K2 didnt want it, rather than saying "Valuev/King doesnt want it"?

 

OK, so you don't know what you're talking about. Though so. Thanks for confirming.

So no one. Thanks. Again, you're proving my point. Your imagination is not my problem. We're talking about reality, not fantasy fights in your head.

The rematch was scheduled and Fury ducked him by pulling out 3 times. Was he afraid of the old Klitschko who was never that good and he went into depression? You can't take mental health as an excuse in one case and dismiss it in the second just to fit your narrative.

Sure. If "a loss is a loss" going by your logic then Lewis never properly rematched Oliver McCall, who was in the ring in a way worse condition than Ruiz against AJ. But if we talked about Lennox, it would not be his problem, right? And just as "a loss is a loss", a win is a win. Clear UD is as good as a win as any other.

 

Why did Sauerland say that he won't face Klitschko unless the fight is on ARD?

 

It was Foreman's "fault" for fighting bums like Grimsley. It is obvious he only gets a trinket for beating an 0-7 opponent due to corruption.

Most of Wlad's title fights were against pretty weak opponents who added little and Wlad went out of his way to fight some of these guys.

I dont see Fury-Wlad as competive, Wlad lost lopsidedly. There was no evidence in that fight that Wlad would have beaten Fury if younger. He was clueless from round 1 to round 11.5, and only had some success in the last 0.5 because he knew he was behind, needed the empty the tank, but still couldnt do much of anything. Fury was never forced to raise his game because Wlad wasnt having any success.

Even the AJ fight, Wlad could lose that at any age. AJ has dangerous attributes and Wlad managed to lose after having AJ dead on his feet. He also hit the deck first after AJ seized the initiative. Maybe one favours peak Wlad but given the way he messed up, I'm not that confident.

 

Usyk is obviously an ATG and best HW of this era but I dont know why people think hes unbeatable

 

You think there was no corruption in Boytsov's ranking and he was the most worthy WBO contender in world boxing at the time. Correct?

When did boxing stop being corrupt? Organised crime is represented at the top of the sport, it arguably is the top. The Saudi government are huge players. Boytsov was friends with psychopathic dictator Kadyrov. But no, rankings could never be manipulated by the alphabet orgs, Boytsov was the guy with the best record and Wlad HAD to fight him, or Leapai. K2 had ZERO power over sanctioning bodies or opponents, it was all totally above board!

If Hysa or Prenga turned out to have Albanian mob conections, would it surprise you? "There is no evidence", "It's a conspiracy theory", "he is a top contender like Boytsov" etc.

In reality, Fury schooled Wlad from round 1 to halfway through the 12th round. Wlad showed nothing, never forced Fury to change tactics. It is only in your head that Wlad wins. Also in reality, Wlad fought no one as good as Fury until Fury, no one like him stylistically (Williamson may well be the closest and that was a disaster for Wlad) and still had 3 losses.

If Wlad had been a 30 stone drug addict it would be a legit excuse because it is obvious he would have had a mental breakdown. Your theories by contrast are implausible and are contradicted by established facts.

You dont understand the primal reality. When a boxer has his manhood taken like Joshua did against Ruiz there is an expectation that he will take it back violently, especially when said boxer has huge advantages in natural size and power, moreso when the opponent turns up in a sh#t state. Joshua looked mentally compromised in the rematch. Lewis stopped McCall so there is no comparison. Ruiz is still up on Joshua in that rivalry.