Will Fury give AJ a shot? Pros and cons from Fury's perspective

Debatable. Parker was still relatively green and under Kevin Barry at the time. Whyte also enjoyed A-side privilege where a headclash was ruled a KD.

Comparing resume and achievements, Parker is a far better win to have on your record than Dillian Whyte.

 

Parker had wins over Takam, Ruiz and Hughie, was a former titlist with two defences, and had fought AJ in a unification. He went 12 rounds in all of those fights. He was less green than Whyte, who transitioned to boxing in his 20's and had almost no amateur record. Parker started boxing at 10, had international experience in the ams. He had 25 pro fights and was 26 years old. I don't think inexperience is a valid excuse.

For his flaws, Whyte had more power and determination than Parker. Chisora is one of Parker's very best wins, Whyte beat him too and better. Rivas would be up there for Parker. Whyte beat Parker himself, who beat old Zhang and Ruiz. I don't see how Parker can be justified as a "far better win" than Whyte.

 

I'm sorry, but that's just delusional. Parker was not in his prime under Kevin Barry.

If you can't see why Parker is a better win than Dillian Whyte, I'm not sure I can help you. Their resumes are miles apart, and a win over Ruiz for the WBO belt is better than anything Whyte has achieved in his career.

 

Ruiz is a little fat HW who scored the ultimate unlikely upset, he is not all that good. I don't see why Parker's win over Ruiz is better than Whyte's win over Parker. Most people had Parker-Ruiz closer too, a draw overall.

I don't think the evidence suggests that Parker was better than Whyte. Similar level. Parker the better boxer, Whyte more powerful and determined, and Whyte won the H2H in their primes.

I consider Parker to be prime from Takam to Wardley. A younger Parker outboxes an old Zhang too, but also gets beaten by Wardley and Joyce. An older Parker loses to AJ and gets roughed up, possibly KO'd by Whyte due to his diminished resistance.

 

Ruiz would flatten someone like Whyte. He didn't KO AJ by being ****, and he only lost the rematch because he got complacent and lazy. Even Fury is on record recognizing Ruiz being a solid boxer.

Whyte was never more than a contender, and is not even a gatekeeper today. Parker, drugs accusation aside, is a former world champion and has been consistently in the top ten for most of his career. They're not on the same level, and I don't see Whyte getting a win over the likes of Bakole let alone heavy hitters like Wilder and Zhang.

 

Ruiz only ever flattened AJ 1. Everyone else went the distance: AJ 2, Miller, Parker, 43+ Ortiz, 38 Liakhovich, 40 Arreola, 38 Kevin. Prime Whyte may well beat Ruiz: he beat Parker, Chisora and Rivas after all. No reason to think Whyte gets stopped. Whyte would beat a one day notice, morbidly obese, four flights to Saudi Bakole and he'd beat a shot Wilder. He may not beat an old obese Zhang, who is Parker's best win for me.

 

Whyte's last outing he crumpled in one round against Itauma. He's not exactly that resilient.

 

Whyte was well on the decline after sustaining his 3rd KO defeat more than 3 years prior to that. He had one foot out the door for years. The version who beat Chisora, Parker, Rivas etc. was tough.

 

Parker was far from a puncher back then, as you regularly point out in other threads, and Chisora is more famous for losing in a valiant effort as opposed to actually beating top opponents. I wouldn't particularly rate Rivas that highly either considering he bailed to bridgerweight the moment it opened up.

Whyte has always had a suspect chin and it was smashed every time he faced someone who could pop.

 

Going 11 fights without getting KO'd, with four of them being Chisora x2, Parker and Rivas, and another two being Browne and Helenius, suggests decent durability. Browne went on to spark Fa in 2 mins, Helenius did Teper and Kownacki x2, Chisora would KO Takam, Parker has always been far from a puncher but he destroyed Dimitrenko and very nearly stopped a faded Chisora in the mid rounds, Rivas stopped a fairly durable Jennings. Joshua beat Whyte up badly before he succumbed in the 7th, whereas Parker did not engage and have his chin tested.

Whyte was never iron-chinned but he clearly was not glassy either, until all the wars caught up with him.

 

Referee refused to let Parker engage against AJ, and that referee could part the damn Red Sea. Parker also had Whyte out on his feet on the 12th where Whyte had to cling on for dear life.

I've enjoyed the debate, but I don't think this is going anywhere productive. Should probably swing back towards the main topic, which is whether or not Fury and AJ will actually fight as well as the pros and cons.

 

Theres alot to go through here

Agree. It would arguably be his biggest win.
Same could be said for Joshua

Yes, I think it would be a hard loss for either but possibly more so for Fury

I read on here from posters all the time saying a loss doesn't mean anything but yes, if they were both undefeated it would of course be a bigger win for either

I don't see either in the shadow of the other.
There have been times due to titles/losses etc where I would on that month rate one above the other, but overall I don't feel either is in the shadow of the other

I think Fury has been well supported.
The almost 5 years after he dethroned Klitschko may be (and this is only me speculating) he didn't fight for over 2 1/2 years and didn't win another world title fight for over 4 years, whereas in that 5 year time Joshua had 9 world title fights, was 8-1 in world title fights, had won 2 unification fights and picked up the 3 titles, in 3 separate fights that Fury didn't defend.
Now I am speculating on what you wrote above but wonder if that may be part of it?

I see this as a 2 way thing as well
I read Fury was offered the Joshua fight when Joshua had 3 titles and Fury didn't have any, but that Fury wasn't interested re the whole A side scenario
It would also be that Fury didn't have the Joshua fight and we know that Fury didn't defend against Joshua after the Klitschko fight and chose not to fight for a longer period of time
it wasn't due to Joshua when they had all the titles between them for a big unification as Fury ended up fighting Wilder again.
Also now we know that Fury is supposedly having another tune up after Joshua's tune up so I think that could all be very two way


In response to all the above...
My worthless thoughts in this...

I am not convinced that Fury/Joshua happens this year

Fury I think has had a few times where he has postponed etc. Often before his bigger fights when he is the A side
Klitschko 2 fight was delayed I think on a few occasions and then Fury decided he wasn't fighting
The immediate Wilder rematch didn't happen and Fury fought a couple of tune ups
Wilder 3, I think there were some delays but could be wrong
Usyk, he needed a tune up and fought Chisora, then decided against Usyk and fought Ngannou, then the date was changed, then there was another delay as I recall

So not convinced it will happen this year

I think alot could also depend on how Joshua looks ie the time i felt Fury was serious in offering Joshua the fight was when Joshua was coming straight off his 2nd defeat to Usyk, and I seem to recall Fury saying something along the lines of you should be fighting fit and ok after that sparring session with Usyk (which was a tough fight) and giving a short deadline to sign for the fight.

If Joshua doesn't look good, gets wobbled and struggles through a decision, I think then that there may be more chance the fight happens this year (still not convinced), but feel that if Joshua looks powerful and destructive that it may be delayed a bit more.
That is only a thought

Personally I would favour Fury and am a far bigger supporter of Fury than Joshua.
Never been a fan of Joshua but do like to remain balanced and often don't get alot of the criticism as I feel he has been great for British boxing and looked to be involved in alot of big fights

I would pick Fury, I would favour Fury but I am not entirely convinced this fight happens this year and providing neither lose the warm up, would think that if it doesn't happen this year would more likely be due to Fury, not that I think anyone would blame him (or Joshua) if he got a better offer ie like world title chance

 

Below is a slightly older post on another thread but you get the idea

I've not been convinced Fury/Joshua will happen this year from the start.
Fury I think likes to be sure he has everything how he wants it mentally and physically before he has the bigger fights (understandably to give yourself the best chance of winning).
I don't think anyone could blame him if he doesn't take the Joshua fight for a title shot, but I'm not convinced he would be fighting Kabayel.
I just wonder if he doesn't want the Joshua fight at this time.

Remember when he fought Chisora the 3rd time?
Usyk was there to promote the fight. Usyk we were led to believe it was Usyk next. Then after the Chisora fight started saying that if that fight doesn't happen for some reason, he would fight J Joyce.
There was no reason that I know of as to why the Usyk fight didn't happen then, but Fury then fought Ngannou and then there was a couple of new dates for the Usyk fight, so that got delayed.

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Watch from 7:30 to 9:30

 

Another from another thread was this link which I thought was interesting

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" Agree. It would arguably be his biggest win."

It wouldn't be Fury's biggest win in terms of boxing prestige. Dethroning Wlad and Wilder are both above it. But it would be Fury's 3rd or 4th. For AJ, it would be 1st by a clear margin, with only the 41 Wlad fight worth considering in the same class.

"I don't see either in the shadow of the other."

Boxing status wise, there is no doubt AJ is in Fury's shadow. He would swap records with Fury in an instant. Fury has the bigger wins and 2 losses to AJ's 4 (2 by KO).

"I think Fury has been well supported."

Not like AJ or even Haye was. Boxers who have contempt for the British, yet the British public still wanted them to KO Fury. Even after Fury dethroned Wlad he got little credit.

I don't see "British boxing" in the same way that you do. I see AJ as a stain.

In any case, Fury certainly feels resentful about the situation and that could be a significant factor in his perspective.

"I see this as a 2 way thing as well"

I can be a two way thing, I'm talking about the narrative if the fight doesn't happen, which there is a good chance it won't.