Is Usyk ducking Kabayel? (VIDEO)

I think so, but he’s earned the right to do so. At this point, I hope he retires undefeated.

 

Usyk would have gotten almost no criticism had he not held up the division for the last year. Its his own fault.

He beats Dubois for the second time without taking much damage and needs a whole year to train for another fight? A great champ would have been back in the ring in 6 months time.

Parker has been fighting at heavyweight for a very very long time and has fought a broader range of heavyweights than Usyk so its not shocking he will have losses along the way. Styles make fights. Just because fighter A beats fighter B and fighter B beats guy C doesn't mean fighter A beats fighter C.

Again, many of us including me have cheered for Usyk his whole heavyweight run. Its just his fans are so oversensitive to any mild criticism.

The fact that Usyk mentioned Joshua and Chisora as possible options post Dubois 2 instead of Parker shows his absolute lack of respect for meritocracy. I don't care if Parker lost 20 fights in the past. He was the most worthy challenger and he should not have even needed to fight Wardley.

But even if he had beaten Wardley, Usyk would have fought Rico instead or Jake Paul and his oversensitive fans would be defending him.

 

If he doesn't box Kabayel next then it's a duck. He is clearly the best and most deserving. You can't even argue about money too much as AK would sell in Europe. I find it funny that no one here was willing to give Canelo similar grace regarding Benavidez, for comparison. Especially the 'he can fight who he wants, he earned it' nonsense, which is a blatant hypocrisy I see on here often.

Still an ATG P4P career in all retrospect but definitely seems intent to end his career with a wet fart. I'd rather see a retirement than an embarrassment like Rico 2 or Fury 3.

 

He directly mentioned Parker in the ring after smashing Dubois. He further went on to say that he would fight Parker if he got through Wardley. Then the sniff head couldn't even manage to beat a white collar fighter who can't box. If you're going to be making grand claims against Usyk you might want to know what you're talking about first.

He had an injury. This was well reported on. The sanctioning bodies even looked into it and said it was legit. Again, get your facts straight if you're going to complain.

Finally, there is no meritocracy in boxing. There never has been. Even if there was, Parker and Wardley and Kabayel haven't exactly covered themselves in glory. Parker has always been a disappointment and beat a completely washed Wilder, squeaked past Zhang, and beat a literally right off the couch Bakole. Wardley lost every round against a prospect level guy in Huni. And Kabayel's wins are a bit better, but not by much. Makhmudov is mega garbage, Sanchez had a bum leg, and Zhang was even older and crappier. Is it any wonder Usyk doesn't want to get paid peanuts to fight these guys no one outside of hardcore boxing circles knows? Especially when he only has a few fights left.

 

He mentioned Parker after mentioning Chisora, Fury and Joshua.

He was never going to fight Parker dude. Never.

If there is no meritocracy in boxing, it simply means you are a bigger fan of one fighter than the sport itself.

And i don't give a damn if Parker squeaked past Zhang. Zhang had just demolished Joyce twice, who was widely regarded as a top 3-4 heavyweight in the world. Most guys wanted nothing to do with Zhang after seeing what he did to Joyce twice.

Parker had the balls to step in with a 6'7 southpaw with ko power in both hands. So what if he struggled to win? He did the job. He took a fight that most top heavies would have avoided.

Parker only beat Bakole because Dubois pulled out. So the logical conclusion would have been for Parker to fight Usyk and Dubois to wait to fight the winner. But instead, Usyk went around Parker to fight Dubois a second time and then started talking about rematching Chisora and Joshua. The only reason he even mentioned Parker at the end was because Parker was there in the crowd calling him out. He had no interest in the fight itself.

How is Dubois pulling out on Parker? The winner of Dubois-Parker was supposed to fight Usyk so when Dubois pulled out, the only logical and fair thing to do is for the guy who pulled out to wait his turn.

You guys are just making excuses. Kabayel could beat another 5 top 10 guys and you will still poke holes into those wins to try to discredit them.

 

The best? Maybe. The most deserving? Not really. His resume consists of Mahkmudov (aged like milk), an injured Sanchez, Zhang (good win, but he was quite old) and Chisora about a decade ago.

I'd like to see them fight though because the style match up would be interesting.

 

Anyway i am glad the belts are gone and while we can't get back the wasted time, i hope we can get another undisputed champ by 2030. And hopefully the next undisputed champ will regularly defend his titles vs worthy contenders.

 

Your description of Kabayel reminds me of Fury. Fighting journeyman, having no desire to prove himself, etc

Just seems like a strange argument given that's what most of the division is doing

 

Now you've moved the goalposts. You said Usyk never mentioned Parker. He mentioned him multiple times.

Damn. You have godlike powers or something? You know what people are gonna do when you've never met them and have no idea what is going on with them? That must be awesome.

Usyk probably would have fought Parker after clearing his injury. Parker was a least a former belt holder and somewhat well known. Also interesting that you completely ignored the injury issue. Clever.

This statement makes no sense. The rankings and mandatories are complete nonsense. It's all about which fighters pay the most money and which fighters the sanctioning bodies think will make them the most money in the future. A recent example is Franklin being bumped to #10 in the rankings with multiple sanctioning bodies before his fight with Itauma to make that fight look more legitimate. There can be no meritocracy when there is no clear criteria for who is the best in the division. There can be no meritocracy when the sanctioning bodies won't even follow their own rules or will make up rules on a whim to allow themselves to snag more paydays.

Joyce was never considered a top 3-4 HW in the world. Those sports were held by Usyk, Fury, and AJ at the very least. And nobody was ducking Zhang. He's like an old asthmatic dog who dies in their sleep 50 times a night.

Usyk took a fight against the guy who had his belt and who called him out in the ring and who Frank Warren was willing to pay him to fight. And Dubois was the much more dangerous fighter anyway as was proven when Parker couldn't get past Wardley and yet Dubois gave him a life altering beating. And again, it's wild that you know the mind of Usyk inside and out.

Nah, we're not. We're just rightly pointing out that nobody gives a damn about Kabayel because he's a bang average HW whose own promoter won't even put up decent money to see him fight. He'll probably get some cans to crush for his first couple of defenses and then he'll be fed to Dubois or Moses and that'll be that. Usyk not wasting his time with him at close to 40 years old is logical and perfectly reasonable, even if we hardcore boxing fans would have liked to see the fight.

 

Yes, because Usyk's career is just like Fury's and he hasn't done anything to prove himself. /facepalm

This is why boxers should always do whatever they think is in their best interest. The fans are going to slate you, demand you fight yet another guy, or whatever until the end of time. You'll get endlessly criticized regardless. So just do what you want.

 

People seem to think beating Fury is a big deal for Usyk

I'm merely pointing out he has had many of the same problems that Kabayel has in terms of lack of ambition and taking poor fights

 

1) Lol. I said he mentioned Joshua, Chisora and Fury 3 and only tepidly mentioned Parker. He had no interest.

3) Joyce was widely regarded as a top 3-4 heavyweight in the world. No one regarded AJ was a top 3 heavyweight post Usyk 2 since he looked so poor. Joshua's team was keeping him away from any top heavyweight post Usyk 2 to try and rebuild him.

The fact you are denying that Joyce was widely regarded as the most worthy challenger to both Usyk and Fury shows fanboyism. Yes, Joyce was a legit top 3-4 guy and certainly ahead of Joshua at that point.

Again, a lot of guys were avoiding Zhang. He was widely feared at this point. Just calling someone old or mocking them doesn't change reality. How many 6'7 hard hitting southpaws has Usyk faced if it is so easy?

Parker called Usyk out in the ring too and yet he had no interest in that one. I don't care if Dubois took his belt. He pulled out vs Parker and that should have been enough to put Parker first.

If we want to play the whole "Parker lost to Wardley and Dubois beat Wardley", that is not how things work, as i have already explained. Dubois lost to Joyce and Zhang destroyed Joyce. That doesn't mean Zhang would necesarily destroy Dubois. Its just basic common sense.

Again, the constant fanboyism over one dude. Denying how highly regarded Joyce was, constantly discreding other fighters while elevating one guy who beat a guy who arguably lost to an MMA debutant in his last fight as the second coming of Joe Louis. Just endless fanboyism.

 

"Until someone beats Oleksandr Usyk or until he officially retires for good, Usyk is still King of the heavyweight division"

I have to disagree hard.


When the most acclaimed stop facing the most worthy challengers, they can not just stay the top dog.
Not facing the best is a defeat in itself and disqualifies you from being at the top.

Logically you could make up a few cases where this will be even more obvious:
Imagine usyk fighting b- and c-list guys well into his forties, avoiding actual challenges. He will always win and by this video's argumentation he will stay the king. That is just not how it is.

Some catch on to that stuff sooner others later, but wait long enough and noone will argue that he is the 'king'. It's just the percentage that grows and right now it's not super big yet - they are still already correct. In the end almost everyone would see it and he would be a Manuel Charr.


The worth of the Lineal and this notion of having to be beaten depends on the top fighters actually taking the challenge. Nat Fleischers comment also depends on that. Change the rules of the game and the conclusions have to change, too...


Usyk just said goodbye and that he is moving to gimmick fights full time. Btw fury also is more name than game by now, so while a fight between them might con enough into believing that the two best are fighting here, enough here should recognize that it can not be a fight for the top spot anymore.

 

Disappointing post. How is kabayel bang average as a hw? In some imagined historic context where you argue that this is a weak moment in history and kabayel would lose in any other context of history?

Because right now he certainly isn't bang average. He is right there at the top. If he were to fight usyk next, he might be the odds favorite.

I didn't follow the discussion and usually I almost 100% agree with your posts, but this bit seems to argue in favor of a top fighter in usyk to avoid the greatest challenge.

If being the best challenger (and kabayel is apart from dubois who already tried against usyk twice) isn't 'worth' fighting, and that is to be accepted by any reasoning at all, why would anyone ever face the biggest threat. Great sport that will be.

Also the fact that kabayel's promoter didn't put the money up is a smoke screen argument.
1. It's an economic argument that is based on a system that keeps boxing outsider countries out of the game and has hurt kabayel and hrgovic and probably zhang a lot already
2. As far as I remember the sheik was ready to put money up for that fight
3. With the support that kabayel drummed up in germany, they probably could have made a lot of money even without the sheik.

 

Looking at the fact that in the Fleischer's days there were champions not defending the title for 2-3 years, don't think he would change his stance to "championships are to be won and lost in the ring... unless the champion doesn't defend against top opposition."

Saying that, Usyk remains the king of the division until the next king emerges. Usyk can fight C and D tier heavyweights up til his 50 if you ask me, but if during that time the new consensus champion is being crowned, Usyk loses that spot. Fury was the lineal champion between 2016 and 2020 only because there was no universally recognized successor. If Wilder and AJ fought, let's say September 2018, that would crown the new champion and all Fury would have is just a claim. Just like Muhammad Ali when he came back in 1970, where his successor was already crowned.