Fight of two Jacks; Jack Johnson Vs. Jack Dempsey

Johnson gets KO'd. Prime Dempsey is not a novice Jeannette or McVey. He's also not MW Ketchel or a no-hoper like Kaufmann or Moran. Johnson almost lost to Battling Jim Johnson who would go onto to be one of Dempsey's sparring partners.

 

Hi Guys.
There have been a glut of HW fantasy fights of late, imo the best would have been Frazier v Marciano, as for the two Jacks, not really feeling it, mainly due to Johnson and his style/way of fighting, there is enough of him on film to gage that he would fight anyway to avoid full engagement, to wit, even when up against the ageing and way past prime Jeffries, he from what I have seen of the fight, didn't really step up and force the fight until the hapless ex champ was thoroughly discouraged and ready for the taking, of course he was technically astute, and a master of defense, but his lack of outright aggression would I feel, turn the fight into a grab and hold fest from Lil Arthur, add to this the 1919 Dempsey looked very primitive when dispatching the brave but very limited Williard, swinging from the knee, seemingly no defense to speak of, so all things considered this pairing does little or nothing for me.
stay safe guys.
Mike.

 

Johnson was fighting with a broken arm from the 3 rd round on.
Battling Jim died in1918.
In his last win over Jeannette, Joe had 20 fights under his belt, hardly a novice.For comparison.
In his 8th fight Johnson went 20rds to a draw with24 fight Klondike,and in his 9th he stopped now 31 fight Klondike in14 rds,in his 11th fight Johnson was in with 69 fight Choynski.

 

Pre 30s not really my thing. But if they met when they could have Jack Dempsey def wins. If they met prime for prime it’s a toss up maybe even slightly favorite to Johnson. I imagine his chin was solid enough to clinch after taking one. Prob takes it safe the first six then starts getting more aggressive.

 

Johnson almost lost to Battling Jim, injured arm or not, and there is no definitive proof which round it was injured. Certainly can’t take Johnson’s word for anything.

Jeannette had less than twenty fights against Johnson and lost half of them. He was a novice.

Dempsey and Battling Jim sparred several times. Jim said he would rather fight any man than box Dempsey for fun.

Klondike was a no-hoper journeyman. Funny how you won’t admit Johnson had more fights than his official record indicates but you insist McVey did. Anything to leverage your argument huh?

 

This is an interesting fight as Johnson was a good boxer, he could bamboozle his opponents and if he could survive the initial onslaught from Jack then he is in with a real shot.

Johnson's opponents were om the whole better than Dempsey's (Jennette, Langford, McVea, Jack O'Brien amongst others) so he has an experience edge on Dempsey.

Would have been a good scrap.

 

So the fact that Johnson broke his arm isn't relevant ?
Johnson didn't ,"almost lose by the way," I have the round by round summary . In their second to last fight which Johnson won 20th September 1906 Jeannette had fought 20 times and was 27 years old.We know McVey had more fight because it is stated on Box Rec,produce Johnson's extra fights and I'll agree with you.
Johnsons 1st fight with Klondike, Johnson 3 fights Klondike 8 ,w5, 2nd fight ,Johnson 5 fights ,Klondike19-5-0,3rd fightJohnson8 fights ,Klondike 22-6-3,so that blows your statement completely out of the water !.

I don't have an argument I'm just pointing out the biased flaws in yours!
There is a term for accusing others of your own failings ,its called projection.

 

To add to this, that's 20 fights Boxrec have found verifiable records of. It's highly likely Jeanette had contested more bouts, possibly significantly more.

Record keeping of that eras equivalent of small hall fights, involving black fighters in particular, is unlikely to have scrupulous.

 

Quite so,I'm not suggesting Jeannette was prime ,but neither was Johnson,imo

 

I agree,Dempsey v Marciano, Dempsey v Frazier.or Frazier v Marciano,and Louis v Dempsey,would be much more engrossing fights,imo.Johnson wasn't exactly Mr Entertainment in the ring,lol

 

Prime Johnson would defeat Dempsey for sure.

 

Just an observation but defending against either of these dudes (especially a super-welter version of Langford instead of the 200 lb version below) isn't the same as defending against the onslaught of a prime 190 lb Dempsey.

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Langford was hog fat at 200lbs,his optimum weight was175/180lbs. Johnson was around 185lbs when he fought Langford so he was also 20+lbs below his optimum weight.

 

This is all up for debate. Johnson looked pretty formidable at 194 in thoroughly trouncing a prime Burns (unless you are Mendoza) rather than that shell of a man he beat in Jeffries. Meanwhile Langford had outstanding results in the 190's. Either way a 155 pound Langford is farther from his prime version than Johnson was at 185.

Back to the match-up, Dempsey, running through all his gears, offered more variation and dynamism at heavyweight than anyone Johnson faced, and it's not even close.