Anyone can throw a jab, there's nothing impressive about his, he just threw it faster. He did not know: - how to duck, he pulled back or sidestepped. - how to parry or to block a jab. He held his right hand out to the side and did not have it in position to block a jab. That is why he had trouble Jones and Norton, who had a good jab. - how to throw a proper uppercut. He threw a right uppercut from the outside and dropped his right hand every time before he threw it. This is why he was vulnerable to the left hook throughout his career. When he fought Frazier for example, he knew Frazier was gonna throw that left hook, that's all he had, yet Ali had no idea how to stop it except for clinching. All of these flaws are there for you to see on the footage we have of him. In terms of punching yes, but only against stationary men. Those who moved well gave him trouble. You are just naming outliers, boxers who were above their peers. I am talking about the general level that existed in an era. And even with your examples, some don't impress me as much as they do you.
You are, at best, inaccurate with truth. Ali parried Liston's jabs to body and head all through first round. Ali ducked and weaved under Liston's punches, Chuvalo's punches, Mildenberger's, Cooper's Patterson's - multiple opponents. He slipped inside and outside Liston's jabs, blocked Foreman's punches with elbows and forearms and even blocked a punch with the shoulders. Holmes threw a long uppercut from the outside and even dropped it before he threw it at times. He had one of the better uppercuts when he locked in - it is what it is. Frazier's entire style is geared towards grinding down out boxers - that he caught Ali time and time again is no shame - we are talking about a bonafide HW great here, not a chump. Also, don't dismiss the jab - the jab is the foundation of virtually every Great not named Roy Jones. To say there's nothing impressive about a jab shows a fundamental flaw to your analysis of skill. Day one when you step into a gym, footwork and jab. It is the most practised punch, the most taught punch and arguably the hardest to execute expertly as well as avoid. It's not a mere case of just throwing it faster otherwise Hector Camacho, Meldrick, Shane Mosley would've likely retired undefeated. Whilst you're looking for flaws, I tend to look for what fighters do have - pray tell, please describe Ali's footwork skillset and then I would be interested in your assessment of the adjustments made when, for example you compare the Liston I to the Foreman fight. I mean, the footage is there for all of us to see ...
Louis didn’t just have fast hands, he had exceptionally fast hands himself and he doesn’t have to be as fast as Roy in that dept. to catch Jones at any rate. Joe obviously also doesn’t need Roy’s chin to necessarily be glass either to put Jones’ lights out which kinda moots side arguments re the integrity of Roy’s prime whiskers. Louis hunted the more accessible body also via textbook multiple punch arsenal. I see multiple paths to victory for Joe. I wonder how much Jones’ victory over Ruiz boosts his perceived chances in some people’s minds against other HWs - and not just HWs but ATGs like Joe Louis no less. Let’s not forget that the none too refined Ruiz almost spoiled the party when he nearly put Roy out with some clubbing blows in the very first round. Without Roy’s one and only foray into the HW division against the less than stellar Ruiz, would he even rate a mention in discussions such as this?
It seems Ali’s technical proficiencies are often unduly underrated in order to highlight his just as real natural abilities. I see this happen with Tyson also in so far as unduly diminishing Mike’s raw power in order to accent on the contribution of Mike’s hand speed and punching in combination to his overall punch effectiveness. Ironically, just imo, Ali’s performance in the first Liston fight is one of his most technically sound displays and that perception is not diminished by his natural athleticism thrown into the mix. As Steve Ellis famously called it, atop the ever present, sterling jab, Sonny was getting hit with “All the punches in the book” - beautiful, textbook punches. From the start and ongoing, Ali spend overtime hours in the gym perfecting his punch techniques - and I think this is borne out when watching available clips of Ali hitting the heavy bag.
Most observers are very lazy and repeat stuff they've heard but not taken the time to analyse for themselves. Here, to my mind, it's simply a question where some people either don't know what they're looking at or don't know how to discern technique from skill. Ali threw a bow and arrow jab when dancing, aiding his extension through the shoulder and knuckle turnover and acting as an antirotational counterbalance - he also threw the jab out of the higher, more conventional guard versus Liston and Foreman. Two completely different jabs, with different techniques and plenty of skill. Talk of fighter X or fighter y relied on their physical abilities in a sport where you have to impose yourself physically is redundant. Think about it, it's like saying Usain Bolt only won so many golds cos he was faster than every one else - yeah - and? Being fast is being fast, being fast and applying it effectively takes skill and dare I say requires some level of technical proficiency to pull it off well and beat the manner of fighters that Ali beat. Simply put, if he lacks skill and/or technical ability, why didn't more technically sound fighters beat him? How did he build the greatest résumé in his weightclass? How is he universally ranked no. 1 or 2 all time? They will throw up struggles versus this fighter and that fighter in fights that Ali won yet throw up excuse after excuse for fighters that they champion in fights that they actually lost.