It's really not. BCS8 has not claimed that Rico is greater than Liston, Foreman, Ali etc. You're treating these past all time greats as your motte and Buddy Baer as your bailey. For example the 'poor opposition' comment by BCS8 was not about Frazier or Liston but instead specifically about Baer himself being the poor opposition to Louis. The only thing relevant here is the skills of Baer and Rico and who would win in a hypothetical.
I agree. Their is a very fine line between Buddy ****ing Baer and the likes of Liston, Tyson, Louis, Frazier, etc.
The mental gymnastics in this thread are incredible. I’m supposed to disregard what I can clearly see with my own eyes — that one fighter is visibly and undeniably better than the other — simply because he’s less experienced.
In defence of Baer, he did have tremendous power. 53 of his 59 wins were by way of knockout. Ofc, he knocked the great Joe Louis through the ropes in Round 1. Rico still takes this though, BCS8 has already said all that has to be said.
The only people engaging in mental gymnastics are the Rico fans. posting footage of a peak Louis and comparing him to a lathergic out of shape Usyk. Louis would have knocked Rico’s brains out faster than he did Baer. And Rico having some success vs a solid but not great puncher in Usyk does not mean he can handle a massive hitting heavyweight like Baer. Baer ko 4
Mate, you’re taking this way too personally. I promise you, it really isn’t that deep. Accusing people of being Rico fanboys just because they favor him over a fighter as technically primitive as Buddy Baer is wild. It’s equally ridiculous to claim Rico is overrated just because you think Tyson, Liston, Foreman, and Louis would have stopped him. Of course they would have—. But losing to those ATGs doesn’t mean he’s overrated, and it definitely doesn’t mean he loses to Buddy Baer. There is an absolute canyon of space between "can beat Buddy Baer" and "can beat prime Mike Tyson." Honestly, there are guys who got wiped out in the first round by each one of those guys (possible exception of Foreman) who I’d still comfortably favor over Buddy. I'm not sure why you have this bizarre personal agenda against Rico, but you're completely moving the goalposts because you can't logically defend Baer.. Claiming Louis would have knocked Rico out faster than he did Baer is just emotional nonsense. Rico is vastly better defensively, significantly more skilled, more clever, and—wild concept here—actually attempts to avoid incoming punches, which Baer seemed to think was illegal. Rico also actually possesses a jab. No one is saying Rico beats Joe Louis, but he is an infinitely more complex puzzle to solve than Baer ever was. Look at it logically: it is far more probable that Rico survives past 6 rounds with Louis than it is that Buddy Baer lasts 11 rounds with Usyk, goes even on two scorecards, and wins one. Please don't tell me you actually believe otherwise.
Oh and as for Baer stopping Rico in 4 rounds? Absolute nonsense. I doubt you even believe that yourself. Rico held Usyk—an infinitely more skilled, precise, and accurate puncher than Baer could ever dream of being—to a mere 22% connect rate. A crude, primitive fighter like Baer would land substantially less than that. And if you think Rico is just going to fold the second he gets touched, you're forgetting he proved his chin repeatedly against world-class heavyweights in kickboxing. I know it’s a different sport, but a shot on the chin is a shot on the chin. You're so blinded by your bizarre agenda that you've got yourself convinced a 1940s plodder is a dangerous knockout threat to a modern elite athlete. It's time to snap back to reality.
Anybody doubting what the outcome would be just needs to looooook attt the fooootaggee. If it is genuinely a mystery after that as to who should be favoured then I can't help ya. And what's more, it is also clear that they aren't even really the same size. Verhoeven came in at a shade under 260lb and is considerably more ripped than Baer. You can just see the depth of flesh on Rico, with shredded striated muscle popping out every which way. He looks like the freaking Hulk compared to Baer, and the fact that such a heavily muscled fighter didn't gas out spectacularly given the pace he fought at tells you just how hard he must have trained his cardio. Baer is basically just the same height but he looks soft as pudding next to Rico.
Buddy Baer Rico stance was horrible, a little too eager, inviting uppercuts at all times, and he was facing a fighter that was throwing pillow uppercuts, but wore him down (predictable that). He'll get knocked down flat on his face, when he faces a real puncher, head on a platter. I want to see Rico against an opponent that can put some OOMPH on his punches/uppercuts, because boxing needs some respect back after that exhibition.. Fury-Nagannou type thing. Is Rico fighting Joshua next? Apparently he's ready for anybody, right? Instant #1 ranking? I understand that the Usyk cult wants to see Rico win every fight now from here to eternity.. but he has to fight a live body now, with all this ****** chatter. Rico doesn't even belong on the classic board, stance like that. If there's one thing Baer can do, it's punch with good/great power. And he had so much more experience at heavyweight boxing. Rico goes down again, but sooner.
How much might perceptions of Verhoeven change if he completely fails in his next HW outing (see the reversal of opinions on Ngannou)? Current perceptions should also take on board that the opposing quality of Usyk should be described exactly as he fought on the night - not as we have known him to fight when at his actual best. Just imo and not to take due credit away from Rico but the Usyk we saw was well below best. As good as Rico might’ve appeared his performance was still relative to that of Usyk’s and Usyk’s alone. The sampling of just one fight is simply too inadequate and we don’t have an idea of how Rico’s applied style might fair otherwise or how much he can vary that style as and when required.
If Verhoeven got smoked by Joshua in a few rounds, I'd still pick him over Buddy Baer because I would still favor Ngannou over Buddy Baer too. I'm not acting like Verhoeven is the second coming of Ali or something just because I think he's the favorite over Buddy Baer.
Dude the only one blinded by an agenda is you. Usyk is not some super precise puncher. He was slow and completely out of shape. He was throwing pitty pat shots the entire fight. Baer hits harder than Usyk. Period. Even you know this. It doesn't matter if Usyk is more accurate or skilled than Baer (of course he is). But he does not hit as hard and isn't as agressive.
Rico is not infintely better defensively. His defense is poor vs uppercuts. Any fighter with a good uppercut who wasn't throwing uppercuts like a toddler would have stopped him in 4 rounds or less. Nothing special about his defense or skills. It was an awful lathergic performance from Usyk.