Top 5 (top 10) boxers with the best resume

Based on records:

1. SRR
2. Greb
3. Langford
4. Armstrong
5. Charles

(6-10 Fitzsimmons, Duran, B. Leonard, Louis, Ali).

 

This is a correct statement due to a grammatical error.

 

I think Pep gets above Louis and Ali - personally, I tend to have him above Duran as well.

 

Fair enough mate, he's my #11, I could easily see him above Louis and Ali, too. It's a judgement call, all 3 dominated a single weight division, Pep was the only one to lose a series whilst in his 20's, albeit with more wear and tear (not to mention some feel the plane crash affected his future career).

I'm comfortable with Duran ahead of Pep though, he has the best individual wins of the two and, unlike Willie, very significant success above his best weight.

 

All reasonable - I wouldn't die on a hill to argue otherwise.

I do think that a combination of Pep's skill on film, a 60 plus and 70 plus win streak, plus regaining a title against Saddler trump Ali and Louis.

Him losing to Saddler is no blemish on what he simply achieved in the ring - Saddler is the equivalent of fighting Mike Tyson with George Foreman's dimensions and nastiness combined. Beating Saddler in a single fight is way up there as an achievement for me, at least.

I'm Duran's biggest fan but I have a sneaky suspicion that Benny Leonard and Pep are better, whilst Duran is greater simply due to his feats above LW. It's a peculiar framework to judge greatness but it works for me.

I tend to rate greatness in tiers rather than straight 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.

Tier 1 for me is Robbi, Greb, Armstrong, Langford, Pep, Charles.

Tier 2 starts with Duran, probably goes Fitz, Benny Leonard, Gans, Ali, Louis, Moore and Tunney.

 

Likewise mate, all reasonable.

Pep doesn't have the quality top tier wins of Duran or B. Leonard (who ended his LW career 81-0, including his 10-0 in world title fights) nor the weight climbing achievements of Fitz or Duran with great wins against much bigger men, so is locked behind for me, but it's all judgement calls, likely based on slightly different criteria.

I have Walker and McFarland clearly ahead of Tunney, otherwise your tiers very closely resembles my top 15.

 

What about McLarnin?

 

SRR, Armstrong and Charles are the names I think have to be there, Pep also. Saddler got the better of him, but since that was after the plane crash I'll give him the benefit of a doubt. Greb has a very strong case, but it's the lack of official points wins and instead newspaper decision that could perhaps muddy it a bit, But I'll put him in.

Benny Leonard should probably be in the top 10 as well. So that's six.

Langford had some incredible achievements, but feel I don't know his career well enough to be 100 per cent here. Gans is a bit the same.

Ali and Louis have a good argument with their standout resumes at HW as well, SRL, Floyd and Pac I also think have strong arguments for top 10. Duran missses out due to No Mas. Yes, I think some will **** themselves here, but Floyd ahead of Duran. In terms of greatness, shitting yourself (only figuratively, though) like that is a big deal to me.

So that's my top 13. Let's say:

SRR
Armstarong
Charles
Pep
Greb
B Leonard
Ali
Louis
Pac
SRL

for my top 10. Maybe Langford and Gans should be there, though. Put it down to my lack of knowledge of them.

 

Nobody has mentioned Archie Moore.

 

0-3 to Charles in his prime, and some losses to unknowns in those years keeps him out for me.

 

Fair distinction and I have had to think about what I value more, skills, résumé, H2H assessment or a combination of all three.

One thing - if Walker and McFarland get ahead of Tunney (for me, big kudos on one loss to Greb, which was avenged and ultimately irrespective of the shape he was in, the wins over Dempsey - similar as Charles (didn't hold the title but beat the No. 2 LHW champ 3 times), LHW champ and HW champ is massive for me), am I potentially missing Wilde out of tier 2 - his utter destruction of men is absolutely insane?

I can expand my tier 2 to include both Walker and McFarland - guilty admission, I really try include Duran in Tier 1 but then I have to temper it with No Mas and the Hearns destruction. Despite this, I still say him of the Palomino and Montreal fights is arguably the greatest capturing of boxing ability on film.

I want to include Napoles likely in my second tier cos his skillset is insane but ... Leonard and Hearns arguably have skillsets verging on Tier 1 but then résumés don't come close.

I suspect that my Pep ranking is cos barring power, he's quite possibly the most impressive fighter to watch on film. Being able to beat Saddler, despite all the disadvantages of size, power and strength that he has to overcome is absolutely massive for me. Stylistically different, but similar to what I would rate it if Duran managed to best Hearns.

 

Maybe I'm mistaken on what counts as resume but to me I can't see the argument for Pep being top 10 based purely on resume. I mean resume is just who they beat and who they lost to, right? Does Pep really have better wins than the following (in no real order)

Greb
Langford
Robinson
Armstrong
Charles
Fitz
Ali
Gans
Moore
Ross
Mclarnin
Canzoneri
Benny Leonard
Mickey Walker

I mean maybe this is a crazy take but a purely resume basis, does Pep even have a greater resume than someone like Bivins?

Bivins has:
Burey
Yarosz
Lesnevich
Maxim
Charles
Marshall
Moore

Pep has:
Wright
Bartolo
Joyce
Ortiz
Saddler
Famechon

 

I rank Tunney higher than most on this site, but I'm comfortable Walker and McFarland are ahead. Yes, Wilde too, imo, though I'm perhaps in a minority there.

I love Napoles, beautiful to watch, but clearly below all the others we've mentioned in terms of record.

Saddler and Pep were both at their respective bests at FW. Duran was at his at LW and Hearns 3 x division higher at LMW, which is where he iced the past prime Duran.

What are your collective best 10 x wins between Duran and Pep? SRL and Saddler, how about the other 8? With Buchanan, DeJesus x 2, Palomino, Cuevas and Barkley (given the size discrepancy) I've got at least 7 x Duran wins better than Pep's 2nd best (Wright? Bartolo? Ortiz?). Possibly 8 given how much bigger Moore was.

 

I don't think you're mistaken, I think you've got the literal interpretation of resume correct. However, I find posters most often mean overall record when they say resume, which is what I suspect the OP meant. Either way, to avoid ambiguity, I qualified my opening post as being based on record.

Nice shout on Bivins though, who has one of the greatest runs in boxing history. His prime was a rare, albeit relatively short lived, one.