Let's be real about Agit Kabayel

Thomas losses started piling up when he was totally shot and really shouldn't affect his standing. In his prime he was very consistent.

Resume wise he's not far off Fury either
Witherspoon vs old Wlad
Coetzee vs Wilder
Weaver vs Whyte
Tillis vs Chisora

Fury beat more journeyman types but I don't know how much those wins help him in the scheme of things

 

If Usyk has achieved everything there is to prove with only three ranked opponents beaten at heavyweight than lots of guys should have retires earlier undefeated with nothing left to prove.

Tyson could have retired undefeated in 87 or 88 with nothing left to prove
Holyfield could have retired in 1992 having nothing left to prove

Same with Foreman who clearly didn't owe anybody anything after beating Frazier and Norton

 

But it's not pretending. It depends on whether you are looking at reality, or the organisational rankings. In the rankings, no, of course not, he's no longer number 1, because he has dropped the belts. But I'm talking about reality... dropping the belts doesn't automatically mean you are no longer the greatest heavyweight in the world. Why would it? The belts are just a piece of gold. You put too much focus on them. We all know Gassiev is FAR from being number 1 right now, but the WBA says he is. They even have Nelson Hysa as number 5, but we know that's ridiculous.

It's like, for example, how most people still recognise Francis Ngannou as the number 1 heavyweight in MMA, despite not currently being a champion in any organisation. I'd still back him to beat Aspinall, Gane, Pereira etc. Fury vs Ngannou at the time (whether people liked the fight or not), was built as the boxing heavyweight champion vs the MMA heavyweight champion. Even though Ngannou had already left the UFC at that point, and therefore dropped his belt.

 

But there would ALWAYS be a mandatory challenger. If he went and beat Kabayel, then there'd be somebody else on the horizon who wanted a shot, that everybody would be demanding he fight next. Is every fighter who decides to drop their belts and do their own thing (particularly in the last year or so of their career), ducking? When is it ducking, and when is it not? Should undefeated fighters just keep on fighting the best until they lose? That seems to satisfy people for some reason. Why can't they exit on their own terms?

For me, ducking is what Wilder did for the majority of his reign, fighting non-stop cans while still getting to call himself the heavyweight champion for a long long time. Usyk has fought the best of the best, constantly, and beaten them all. And now, he chooses to drop the belts, instead of fighting his next mandatory, and it's a duck? If Usyk had a reputation for that kinda thing, then I'd see your point, but he doesn't. There has to come a point when a fighter who has achieved what he has achieved says 'No thank you, it's been great, but I'm gonna do my own thing'.

 

He should have already fought Kabayel though. Not fighting him already is due to his unnecessary rematches and fighting once a year

 

Fury beat Chisora and Wilder 3x.. Stoppages in 4/6

Dominated Wlad..

Fought Usyk well twice and the 1st fight was better than anyone vs Usyk at heavyweight

I think Thomas is underrated but he is not anywhere near Fury

 

I dont care about the belts

Its the fact that Usyk is clearly no longer interested in serious fights and wants cash out gimmick fights from here on

 

He's gotta be close. Moreover Fury was past prime and coming off a horrible performance against Ngannou without any top wins in 2 plus years.

I would say Tucker is probably a better win for Tyson as well given he was absolute peak form. Maybe a few other guys too.

 

I think the win that goes under the radar the most is Frank Sanchez. I still see Sanchez as a real problem for the majority of heavyweights. Kabayel butchered him.

I’ve got this weird hunch that the guy that’s gonna be all wrong for Kabayel is Okolie and I hope to god I’m wrong because Okolie puts me to sleep everytime he’s fought.

 

Usyk fought an unproven 1–0 boxer instead of Kabayel. Don't overthink it; he waited an entire year to fight Rico.

If he had retired soon after the Dubois II/Fury II win, I wouldn't consider Usyk a duck. But instead, he held onto the titles for another year, fought someone who hadn't earned a title shot, and then walked away once Kabayel became his mandatory challenger.

Sadly, that's duck behavior.

 

Theres really no way to defend it unless youre a fan boy

 

The modern cruiserweights who drained themselves too much before moving up to heavyweight, like Okolie and Riakporhe, have generally looked much better at heavyweight. If he's in shape, Okolie would be a tough night for any heavyweight. The problem is that he seemed to be a fighter who would be in fat camps instead of a proper training camp. Just watch his fight with Tetteh; it was absolutely dreadful. Even if Okolie is at his best weight and in top shape, though, I'd still favor Kabayel, though.

 

Fighting Hrgovic is a far bigger risk than facing Gassiev. Ducking accusations become non credible once he signed to take on a better opponent

The Wallin loss obviously makes the argument even more insane