What boxers have a better resume than Holyfield in all of HW history?

The first 90% of the comment makes perfect sense.

The last 10% does not

 

Also there's literally no universe in which resume is interpreted as "People you've fought" and not "people you've defeated".

Who's ever walked into a job interview and wrote down all their failure's on their resume? If the best resume = who you've fought then the best resume in boxing history is some bum 0-0-300 bum we've never heard of that's fed to prospects to pad their record.

 

Boxing history disagrees.

Historically, a ring record is a snapshot of outcomes - who you beat, your Ls, KO's, in modern times, the glorious zero losses.

The résumé is the complete body of work. It evaluates quality of opposition, context, risk-taking, and who a fighter actually stepped into the ring with, regardless of whether they won, lost, or drew.

When analysts, historians, nuanced fight fans look at weightings and rankings, fighters such as Ken Norton, D1ck Tiger, Evan or Oscar rank higher due to close losses or willingness to step into the ring against the best, regardless of result than fighters who carefully manufacture a 40 - 0 record by avoiding the live and dangerous opponents/contenders of their era, cleaning up on cannon fodder, has beens and never was opponents.

If you want logical proof of why losses belong on the résumé - they capture a couple of things that their omission doesn't:

• Level of Risk: Did they fight prime, peak opposition, or did they catch guys on the slide?
• How They Lost: Losing a 15-round, highly competitive split-decision war to another Hall of Famer adds context and respect to a résumé. Getting punched out in two rounds by an unranked journeyman hurts it. Not all losses are equal and shouldn't be treated as such!
• The Rematches: A lot of boxing’s greatest résumés are built on multi-fight rivalries where fighters traded losses (e.g., Ali vs. Frazier/Foreman/Nortons, Robbi vs. La Motta, Robbi vs. Fullmer, Holyfield vs. Bowe, Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Duran). If you only count the wins, you erase half the context that made those rivalries iconic.

People only think it's who you beat because of the modern fascination with zero losses. In previous eras, boxing trainers used to chuckle at the notion of zero losses - they believed that the guy truly hasn't been tested and was a protected fighter.

Also, you cannot liken a boxing résumé to a corporate job application - it's a false equivalency. How often does a job candidate go toe to toe with an elite CEO every six months, in some cases, every couple of months, with internationally recognised Vice Presidents or Regional Managers in between? When it comes to combat sports, the qualifying factor is the arena of competition itself - not the semantics of lack of losses.

In true boxing evaluation, who you fought reveals your bravery, warriorness and standing in the sport, while who you beat reveals your absolute ceiling. Both belong on the résumé.

 

• Joe Louis has similar defeats (not quite such defeats).
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

Joe Louis is in my second tier of all time greats, alongside Ali, despite getting sparked out by Rocco, losing to Charles and struggles with Conn because context matters.

 

Holyfield was considered finished. He lost to Moorer and got knocked out by Bowe. In the meanwhile he sat out a year with a heart condition. Plus he was older than Tyson. Both were past prime, Tyson was a big favorite to win, so no excuses for Mike here.

Holyfield didn't need steroids too. Both never were caught and only one admitted to cheating drug tests. Guess who it was, lol. And Tyson's body changed after he came back in 1995 comparing to his 80's self.

 

Agreed about the steroids however when Evander fought Tyson, Holyfield was the underdog going into the fight.

 

Doesn't tell us much.

There were more 'lineal' HW champions in Holy's day than Trump lies in an average month.

Just Liston, Frazier, Foreman is better than Evander's entire resume.

 

That doesn't mean anything. Holyfield might have been perceived the underdog, but he was battle hardened, while Tyson was not.

 

Yet he wasn't.

Due to steroid abuse.

Completely meaningless.
Holyfield was roided to the gills and battle hardened, while Tyson wasn't.

Actually he did, otherwise he wouldn't have taken them.

Completely irrelevant. Holyfield not being caught does not mean he wasn't roiding.

Tyson was doing marijuana, cocaine and alcohol, not PEDs like Holyfield. HUGE difference.

He wasn't bigger one bit.

 

As in the case of Tyson Vs. Golota, when the fight was declared Tyson's victory first, and then because of marijuana - NC.

 

He only beat him due to a lucky punch.
Foreman got beat by every good boxer he faced in the 90s.

That I agree with. But that doesn't make 90s Foreman great.

It wasn't a great one either.

Looking dangerous and being dangerous are entirely different things.
Tyson wasn't match sharp. He needed a few more fights and proper training.

Cause Fury wasn't coming after a jail stint like Tyson.

You do realise Usyk wasn't exactly prime himself, right ?
He's older than Fury.

He bounced back pretty good.

Cause Usyk broke him mentally.

For me he does.
Let me put it this way. AJ and Fury were far closer to their best / prime than Foreman and Tyson were to theirs.

 

You probably are older, though I assume not by much. But resume has never been about who you fought, it's about who you've beaten.
Others, as some other posters have pointed out, a bum with 100 losses can claim he has the best resume simply cause he lost to many great boxers.

For me it's not. One's wins mean nothing if they are against washed up versions of opponents.

Not for me.

 

If Foreman's victory against Briggs had been declared, it would have moved Foreman up one spot on the HW ATG list.
Think again; that would mean he has 2 defeats in his first career, and 2 defeats in his second career.

... And retired Foreman as Lineal HW chanpion (Tunney, Marciano, Lewis); only 3 names...

 

In terms of raw statistics, Holyfield actually has very few peers.

Look at the number of ranked opponents he beat, and cruiserweight and heavyweight combined.

Look at the number of years he was ranked in teh top ten himself.

What tends to stop him from getting into the very highest echelons, is the fact that he lost a couple of critical series.

He lost the series against Bowe, and he lost the series against Lewis.

However after he won the series against Tyson, some people had him at #3, and while hindsight has eroded that accomplishment, the mathematics are not as far fetched as you might think.