floyd patterson vs rocky marciano in 1956

It's hard to figure how people would do against Patterson. He was a very modern looking fighter. In his early matches he was one of the most aesthetically pleasing fighter's ever he looked like few that came before him. People just mention his chin but he could move so beautifully I think he was underrated myself. I often wondered this result....I just don't know the answer.

 

I agree, Patterson almost certainly would not have been his opponent. I was referring to this part of your post. "Opponent # 50 would have been someone pretty underwhelming, such as Pastrano or Jackson, and it would likely have drawn a disappointing gate." I see no reason he would've faced Pastrano. Pastrano wasn't in the top ten. Moore was still number one, though he'd just beaten him so he'd likely have moved onto his number 2 contender in Baker. Jackson was number 3 so he could've plausibly received a shot.

 

Rocky's back was a real problem at the time of retirement and a motivation to hang it up. Also his long-time hand problems had aged into a further factor. As to "near death" to win that goes for his training camps as well. Still, Cus D'Amato didn't think Floyd was ready for Marciano and would not have fought him but knew Rocky was ready to retire (mostly because of financial conflict) and had time to burn waiting with Floyd. It's insane to realize Floyd was fighting at super-middle #s the year before becoming heavyweight champ and with minimal difference between his walkaround and fighting weights being only 19-20 years old. In contrast by '55-'56 Rocky's walkaround weight was 205+ and that took effort as refraining from gorging on southern Italian food. But for his discipline he'd have easily ballooned to 230.

 

I think that Rocky Marciano, was as intimidating as Liston, in his own way,

His politeness was intimidating.

I have done jobs in the security sector, where I sometimes had to intimidate people, in scenarios where I would be on the losing end if I failed.

I didn't try to become Sonny Liston.

I just tried to be as unreactive and unreadable as possible.

Above all, I tried to make the person threatening me guess what I was thinking.

Marciano might have had that effect.

 

Yes opponent 50 would have been underwhelming, whoever it was.

Marciano's reign up to that point, had been defined Challengers who deserved to be there.

He had created a pile up, by beating everybody.

Baker or Jackson, what does it matter?

 

Fair.

 

Very well described as to projecting said persona same as cops have told me. As for boxing it calls to mind something Ali said when of course asked at the time of Tyson's peak if his best self would have been the winner. Without a pause Ali said he'd have won and the interviewer asks him how along the lines of technicals stick and move and such but Ali looked at the guy and said only: "I'd make him doubt himself like I did Sonny Liston and George Foreman."

 

There was a reason Cus D, kept Floyd at light heavyweight until Marciano retired - RM brought relentless pressure and relentless power. Floyd was a talented and aged well but his weaknesses would have been exposed vs Marciano, Floyd may not have frozen with fear, but he would have been beaten down. Cus was brilliant and knew the game

 

Pastrano’s career arc was the freakiest ever. Consider this: 1) at age 12 he was intro’d to boxing to cope with being picked on as an obese 185 pounder, 2) he turned pro in ’51 at age 15 (imagine that now?) as a featherweight (no, that’s not a mistake) and in his second bout was a super bantamn (122), 3) fighting as often as 3X a month, he was a welter within six months, 4) a year+ later he was a middleweight, 5) soon tread water as a bigger middle for almost two years 6) then at 19 in ’55 beat still fairly recently LH champ (now ex-) Joey Maxim, 7) within six months he’s a full-fledged HVY for the time and @185 beats Rex Layne who’d fought a pre-title Marciano (the month Rocky won the title Pastrano fought at junior welter), 8) he campaigned at heavy with marginal success for eight years, 9) one of his last fights at HVY in ’62 was a draw against a 48 year old Moore 20 years older than he, 9) abruptly drops down to LH to launch ’63 and even though he’s brand new to the division begins the year ranked #5, 10) he starts out with a trilogy fighting every few weeks against unranked Wayne Thornton as L-UD, D-MD, W-MD. Nonetheless, within less than a month he gets a title shot and wins it against Harold Johnson via SD. Hmmm. Ya kinda gotta wonder; Angelo Dundee was his trainer and Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo were at the height of their power. Full circle back to the notion of him being #50 for Marciano end of ’55. As Dundee declared in no uncertain terms; “Pastrano had NO power.” So a patty-caking just turned 20 year old kid against the Marciano who’d just blitzed Moore 6 years before he (Moore) drew with Pastrano? Willie would have been on the canvas looking like leftover lasagna in the same timeframe as Walcott 2. Finally, Willie’s post boxing life was a complete disaster (a broke heroin addict / alcoholic).

Pastrano’s career arc was the freakiest ever. Consider this: 1) at age 12 he was intro’d to boxing to cope with being picked on as an obese 185 pounder, 2) he turned pro in ’51 at age 15 (imagine that now?) as a featherweight (no, that’s not a mistake) and in his second bout was a super bantamn (122), 3) fighting as often as 3X a month, he was a welter within six months, 4) a year+ later he was a middleweight, 5) soon tread water as a bigger middle for almost two years 6) then at 19 in ’55 beat still fairly recently LH champ (now -ex) Joey Maxim, 7) within six months he’s a full-fledged HVY for the time and @185 beats Rex Layne who’d fought a pre-title Marciano (the month Rocky won the title, Pastrano fought at junior welter, 8) he campaigned at heavy with marginal success for eight years, 9) one of his last fights at HVY in ’62 was a draw against a 48 year old Moore 20 years older than he, 9) abruptly drops down to LH to launch ’63 and even though he’s brand new to the division begins the year ranked #5, 10) he starts out with a trilogy fighting every few weeks against unranked Wayne Thornton as L-UD, D-MD, W-MD. Nonetheless, within less than a month he gets a title shot and wins it against Harold Johnson via SD. Hmmm. Ya kinda gotta wonder; Angelo Dundee was his trainer and Frankie Carbo and Blinky Palermo were at the height of their power. Full circle back to the notion of him being #50 for Marciano end of ’56. As Dundee declared in no uncertain terms; “Pastrano had NO power.” So a patty-caking just turned 20 year old kid against the Marciano who’d just blitzed Moore 6 years before he (Moore) drew with Pastrano? Willie would have been on the canvas looking like leftover lasagna in the same timeframe as Walcott 2. Finally, Willie’s post boxing life was a complete disaster (a broke heroin addict / alcoholic) .

 

100%. D'Amato knew that Marciano would've knocked Patterson out.

EDIT: I'm almost wondering from reading this thread if Marciano is underrated, at least by more diehard boxing fans.