Favourite Technique Wells?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Jul 30, 2026 at 11:18 AM.


  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Which fighters are your favourite for just discovering techniques which you've never come across before. The guys who just seem to have a never ending bag of tricks. And specifically, what did you actually learn?



    Sandy Saddler: Saddler is a dirty *******, tall and long limbed, armed with huge power and an iron chin - he's hard to copy. But inside, there's absolutely somethings you can and should steal. One of them for me, was how he got inside - using the long right hook to the body as a sneaker punch underneath the lead elbow.

    Archie Moore: there's a million and one things here. I like how he'll bob low, then bob even power after a brief pause; I like how he circles people while in the clinch, taking angles - I've completely stolen how he switches between a long guard and a cross guard and his approach to taking away the jab is my favourite ever. The big right over the top, the splitting left hook, the counter jab, and the rear hook to the body all just to punish the jab.

    Roberto Duran: One of things I took away from Roberto Duran was the uppercut on inside, and using touch to tell when an opponent is doing something. I also have borrowed the jab and dip from Duran, and have attempted to copy how he used it to land the right hand with my southpaw left.

    Jose Napoles: There's an endless amount of footwork techniques to be learned from Jose Napoles. Iirc @Ioakeim Tzortzakis found some excellent uses of half steps and vs Cokes. I've also begun practicing how he gallops in off the jab by moving his back foot up beneath as he jabs then steps out into a hooking stance.

    Miguel Canto: During his fight with Avelar, there's a moment where Canto steps his lead foot inside Avelar's three times in the same way, and each time it's a different punch. Then a few minutes later, he steps in, in the same way, then just feints. This mutha****er layered feinted a feint.
     
  2. Lankykong

    Lankykong Member Full Member

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    McCallum: Roll under a right and return with his own right hook/uppercut to the body. Countering body punches with body punches.

    Kronk gym: Chopping right hand, jab/long left hook mix up and left hook to the body.

    Foreman: Big right hook to the body/big right uppercut to the head mix up. Gotta make sure the guy is wary of your power shots first.

    Holmes: Jab Feints, long guard/controls, pivoting right hook while cross stepping to the right.
     
  3. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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  4. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali: Most people highlight Ali’s reflexive slipping, but Round 5 against Liston in the first fight is the ultimate display of his tactile defence under fire.

    Visually impaired, allegedly by the liniment on Liston’s shoulder or gloves, Ali couldn't rely on visual range-finding or his typical head movement. He had to fight predominantly by feel.

    What Ali pulled off in that round is from the same instinctive inside principles as Duran or classic catch-as-catch-can mechanics. When you lose sight, touch becomes your primary radar. By making and maintaining physical contact, you instantly read your opponent's balance, weight shifts, and can guage their intention to strike before they launch. Hours and hours of practice in the gym, control of space and muscle memory hones the instincts as to what punch will be thrown next.

    A few specific mechanics Ali used to survive and control Liston:

    Forehead Framing & Center-Line Control: Ali posted his left hand straight onto Liston’s forehead as a physical distance marker. Pushing/making contact with the forehead manipulates the opponent's spinal alignment and Ali used this to affect Liston's center line, affecting the leverage of his hooks, and forcing him to reset his feet.

    Underhooks & Biceps Control: In close, Ali used underhooks to control Liston's upper-body frame, or draped heavy overhooks over Liston’s biceps. Controlling the biceps gives immediate sensory feedback: the second a muscle flexes or shifts to load a shot, you feel it through your grip, pivot your opponent and neutralise the leverage before it develops.

    Elbow & Forearm Shields: With his guard pulled high, Ali caught Liston’s hooks directly on his elbows and forearms, absorbing power into his frame, using the ropes to dissipate force somewhat rather than retreating blindly into space. When the elbows didn't block shots, he was pulling down on Liston's head affecting the leverage that he could really get onto the body shots.

    It’s a masterclass in reading opponent intent through physical contact rather than visual cue. Ali survived what should be an impossible round by shutting down a terrifying puncher entirely through touch, leverage, and posture control.

    Evan Fields: Most people remember Holyfield for his heart, chin, or engine, but his subtle, tactile inside game was elite, in addition to him being highly skilled on multiple levels at all ranges. There are aspects of his medium to inside range fighting that are rooted in the same trap and pin mechanics used by the likes of Duran, Louis, and Moore.

    A clear example of this is the fifth-round finish against Tillis in Holyfield’s heavyweight debut. With Tillis pinned against the ropes, Holyfield didn't just throw over-zealous combinations at a closed guard; he systematically stripped Tillis’s defense using hand traps to create openings for power shots with little, almost goose neck-like, traps of the forearm to open up room for his shots.

    A breakdown of how Holyfield manipulated Tillis’s guard in that final sequence:
    Right-Hand Pin to Left Hookercut: Holyfield posted his right glove directly over Tillis’s left wrist/forearm, pinning his lead defense low and pulling his guard off its center line. With Tillis's left hand temporarily neutralised, Holyfield fired a short, tight left almost hookercut shot that landed clean.
    Left-Hand Trapping to Right Hook: Switching sides, Holyfield used his left hand to sweep or pin Tillis’s right glove downward, allowing Holyfield to drive a right hook to the body, followed by a left hook straight past the split defense into the temple. A little bit of manipulation and a split guard finalised by a snapping uppercut down the middle.
    Controlling the Guard to Force Openings: Just like Louis’s subtle wrist-slaps or Moore’s cross-guard manipulation, Holyfield wasn't waiting for Tillis to open up voluntarily. By physically touching, trapping, and steering the lead hands, he manufactured the openings himself, leaving Tillis dazed and unable to come out for Round 6.

    It’s classic old-school hand fighting - taking away an opponent's defense by controlling their limbs at close range before they can react.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2026 at 4:14 PM
  5. The Fighting Yoda

    The Fighting Yoda Active Member Full Member

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    Orson. Though, technically, it's a Welles.
     
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  6. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    I assumed George made a typo, no disrespect to him.
     
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  7. Andre2000

    Andre2000 Member Full Member

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    Harry Greb? Yeah, if only we had a Time Machine to go back and actually see that man fight.
     
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  8. Andre2000

    Andre2000 Member Full Member

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    Orson “Butterbean” Welles. Good fighter that one. Well rounded.
     
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  9. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wonderful choices. Glad you got my guys Sandy and Archie on the list.

    I like to watch how both Larry Holmes and Sweet Pea Whitaker put their hands on people. Larry will lay that left forearm on a guy’s neck to frame him and target the right hand. Pea did all kinds of things — I know I saw him once when a guy (I forget who) was about to throw a right lead and he just reached out with his left and barely touched the guy’s right shoulder and inched it back a nudge … Pernell didn’t move and the right came within a whisker but fell short of his chin, haha. Masterclass.

    I need to watch more of him, but I discovered the joy of Sammy Angott some years ago and his spoiling tactics are sublime. How he makes a miserable night for opponents, and all of it teachable.
     
  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Too bad Orson Welles wasn’t around to film his fights.

    Citizen Greb would have been a blockbuster.
     
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  11. Andre2000

    Andre2000 Member Full Member

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    Or, instead of the character Harry Lime, Harry Greb plays himself as The Third Man in the movie of the same title.

    As to filming Greb’s fights, I wonder if Harry would get annoyed with Orson constantly yelling “cut” to tell Greb that he needed more windmill.

    “Explore the studio place Harry, explore the space!”
     
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  12. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Good post.

    Is there a man in all of boxing history who "missed" more jabs than Miguel Canto? I don't think so. Off this missed punch he would make every single punch depending upon the position of the opponent, the rate at which is was missing, or whatever. He would turn it into a right hook to the top of the head from a square stance. I guess the fight he did this in the most was his split decision win over Gonzales, and this is the point. It wasn't like journeymen were falling for these tricks - they were not capable to be fair - but world class fighters like Gonzales couldn't help it, he'd draw them in, use the "Feint" (like calling a mantrap a rabbit-hole) to land just jabs and by the end of the fight he'd be using it to land straight-rights instead. It's the consistently best unrepeated technique i've ever seen. I don't think anyone else really was able to do this (Ray Robinson closest though weirdly LaMotta was good at it too (IMO and harder to spot because he feinted with position)) at all, ever, which is why Canto is always my pick for most cultured best hand or cleverest left hand or whatever these days. He was so special with that left hand and so much of it was about trickery.
     
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  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    How would you say you've seen Robi use missed jabs?
     
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well i'm a LaMotta-Robinson VI fanatic and in that fight Robinson, IMO, was coming up short with enough frequency to trick LaMotta into operating as though there was safety, not strategically, but tactically, I mean in seven second bursts, in corners of rounds, I won't go into detail here but I will say that watching that fight fills me with sorrow sometimes. Robinson worshipped Louis, wept at seeing him defeated, and this, for me, was the greatest gift ever exchanged between two fighters: Louis made Robinson see that offence was not enough, that you had to convince your opponent, that despite being a mobile rampart, it was sometimes safe to attack you. LaMotta, the most hopeful fighter ever to have boxed, a bastion of optimism within the ring, repeatedly, had his hope rekindled by the greatest offence machine to have lived. I went through a fifteen year period of obsessively watching the lions of the Serengeti (and to its east) duke it out over generations once the internet got up and running for real, and i saw more than a few die, and what struck me about them was that they never stop looking at the horizon until they're gone. LaMotta was like that in that fight. He never allowed himself to give up until his nervous system considered him slaughtered.

    I might do this properly one day, but for now, and insisting upon none of this in discussion with anyone else:

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    Robinson does two things with his jab in the opening rounds. He either doesn't fully extend it (see above) or he lands it lightly, without following through. There are many reasons why this is a good idea, for example, have you found your own range yet before over-committing against an opponent that's already coming up and under? But another reason, and it's lost to the world, is to fault your opponent's range. How many more inches do you think are on this jab than Robinson gives here? 4-6? A few, that's for sure, elbow crooked, punch is coming out to Robinson's right rather than through the target, it's an invitation to miscalibration. Remember, this is against an opponent Robinson knows cannot knock him out. Meanwhile, LaMotta knows his range, but of every single aspect of fighting between familiar opponents, whether it's men who have sparred or fought, calibration of the distance is the most untrustworthy and messy. It's so difficult, full of sound and fury, and even months ago is so long ago. Robinson is lying to LaMotta here about the distance, and he keeps it up for many rounds.

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    This is a flat out missed punch and the key thing to remember is: I can't prove that Robinson "missed" (and quite often these are cuffing or scoring or glancing blows anyway) on purpose, he could just be missing and then taking advantage but that's not my opinion. This, specifically, is where Robinson wants LaMotta to think he is safe. Up and under, coming in from low, obtaining a stoop from Robinson which makes it hard for him to get onto the back foot - note the full weight of Robinson through the toes - to open up two further punches. 1) the big "solver" which is the right hand to the body. You can see, already, that LaMotta is ready to sell his body to Robinson in order to facilitate his own offence. Given that this punch was the total solution for Robinson to LaMotta's work inside the importance of achieving this cannot be overstated. The most important punch in LaMotta-Robinson VI is this right hand to the body and Robinson steers LaMotta from the first round into these channels to open it up. I can't be sure of course how much success or not Robinson had with this punch in earlier fights (it gets mentioned in reporting for one of the other fights) but it's definitely thee punch in this one.

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    This is another example from a little later, and one thing to note is what a perfect punching position Robinson has adopted, he's got LaMotta leaning away, with no offence on the table, in what for a very tall fighter is basically the upper midriff on the left hand side, the literal easiest portion of an opponent for the orthodox fighter to hit and LaMotta has put his head there and Robinson doesn't hit it. He wants LaMotta up that pipe for, in the first instance, the right hand to the body, not a normal one though, a lashing one round the corner.

    I was grabbing some pictures for the next little section but it's so instructive I made a gif instead. Probably won't publish but:


    It's two thirds of the way there because you see Robinson NOT throw the jab against a wide open target, avoid the punch that LaMotta wants to throw to get inside, throw the "light" version of his dangerous jab but get caught on his heels and allows LaMotta to land the left hook. If only he'd landed his own punch! It would have been perfect, but there is no shortage of Robinson landing a gentle jab or a non-jab and opening up Robinson for the bodyshot or even an uppercut in the mid-late stages of that fight. He spent the whole fight setting him up for the fight to be contested exactly where Robinson wanted it to be contested on the outside even when on the inside. The longest punches Robinson threw in that fight were when they were head to head.

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    Missed or nothing jab in the ninth.

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    Less than a second later he's brought LaMotta up the channel that the weak jab makes seem safe and guts him like a fish to the body. Awww it's so good, so amazing good, this is what Arcel meant by "mental energy" I think, the never ending quest for the manner by which to deploy his athletic gifts and the specific reason why I sit at home laughing at people on here who want to say Leonard was better. Leonard didn't have a third, a quarter of the rounds you need to find this type of perfect solution to a problem your world-class opponent doesn't even know he has given you. Robinson's monstrous genius.
     
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