ATG big punchers who’d still be ATG’s if they had below average power

Liston is a superb boxer comparative to other heavyweights.

 

Golovkin could go places just on the basis of his jab, chin and footwork.

 

My hot take on Roy is that he's similarly heavy handed and speed hybrid to Louis, Robbi, Hearns, JJ and Tyson, but mentality and stylistic tendencies stops him from exhibiting it in the aesthetically destructive way that they are more remembered for.

 

Hagler. His chin, workrate and underestimated defence would still see him overwhelming most. One few will put forward is peak Tyson, and for similar reasons. Without the power he becomes a fearsome heavyweight Qawi who would win fights on condition and attrition

 

Totally agree. He's got some very flashy knockouts tho. I do get what you mean however.

 

Foreman forever and ever.

 

Yeah, he definitely seemed more content to just coast to a wide decision when he got to LHW - I don't think it's cos he lacked power or didn't carry it up as some suggested.

His showings against Tate, Harris and Castro were full of intent - one punch statements over Hill and Griffin, and then you get performances like Del Valle, McCallum and Woods where he seems to fight within his capability.

Roy's a conundrum - if only he had retired after the first Tarver fight.

 

Yeah he seemed to coast a lot more at 175. He absolutely idled vs McCallum. I truly believe he could have stopped him if he wanted to at that career stage.

If Roy retired after Ruiz or Tarver he'd be deep in H2H GOAT discussions.

 

Hearns outboxing the master boxers Hill at 175 and Benitez at 154 after he broke his right hand had nothing to do with his right hand kill shot. No doubt the Hearns right hand was his coup de grace but in his fights against Leonard, Benitez and Hill, Hearns showed he could have made a HOF career off of just his boxing skills. I respect your opinion but that’s my take.

 

That's about the first one I thought of.

 

The second half of the first Leonard fight in particular is some of my favorite displays of Tommy's skills. He was setting traps, feinting, and was even using some of Ali's more advanced footwork patterns right in front of Ali himself in the front row seats. This sequence in the 11th round explained in the video below highlights Tommy's footwork brilliance really well. It was such a missed opportunity that he didn't get to fight Michael Nunn as I think he would have been a great opponent to give him a high-level chess match.

15:17-16:02 specifically

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Wilfredo Gomez had EXCELLENT skills and was the total package.
In fact, because he fell in love with his power later on in his career, and got complacent with his skill set, it probably cost him in the late stages of his career.

 

There have been many fighters who have displayed excellent boxing skills in tandem with their big punch.

Just imo, even so, it’s not always so simple as to remove the power component and necessarily assume the boxing skills to be exactly as effective.

For example, a feint from a puncher like Liston was likely more effective based on the power already demonstrated and always held in potential.

Still a very polished move but, given the demonstrated integration of power, perhaps seeing a more acute evasive reaction from the opponent.

For one example, Liston can be clearly seen on film using left feints to manoeuvre leery opponents into his oncoming right. He also used jab feints to disguise ultimate left hooks.

Maybe he doesn’t get quite the same evasive reaction without that sledge hammer left jab of his?

This isn’t an exercise to down play his boxing skills - they were for real - rather, it is to possibly highlight the added advantage of also utilising and carrying power in tow.

While the effectiveness of the stand alone boxing skills of some fighters minus their power remain as hypotheticals, I think there are material examples of fighters actually “losing” their punch along the way - allowing for their boxing skills to truly coming to the fore or at least become that much more apparent.

Enter Liston as an example again.

As Liston aged, becoming that much slower, stamina challenged, even more consciously paced and, as an overall consequence, no longer carrying quite the acute punch of old - we saw more ideally framed examples of his pure boxing skills post title.

I really like older Liston’s methodical outboxing and ultimate stoppage of a much younger, durable and fair sized opponent in 6’3”, 215 lbs Henry Clark.

Another cause of a punchers effective power being reduced are forays into upper weight divisions.

For that scenario we have Roberto Duran as an ideal example - his pure boxing skills being either more apparent and/or more heavily relied/accented upon as he continued to move further beyond his ideal P4P weight.

 

No way liston is an atg without his power. Liston was the archetype of a modern boxer puncher

 

I think Michael Spinks could have dominated his era at 175 (a strong one, at least for the early part of his time) and also outboxed an aging Holmes without the right-hand jinx, mostly by simply out-jagging everyone.