Has boxing really regressed?

What a wordy way to say "I don't believe what I'm writing, I'm just messing with y'all".

 

Sure but I don't really think it's any of the stick and ball sports that is stealing them, at least any more than in decades past. I think that MMA is putting the real hurt on the talent pool here. When I see a guy like Gaethje's insanely heavy hands, or a guy with the fighting heart and fight-specific athleticism of a Jon Jones, that's where I see the drain. And unlike basketball and football, MMA steals them over every weight division.

I've traveled Mexico a lot, and in a lot of the really poor places. BUT, it was a while ago. When I was last there boxing was still huge. Maybe that is changing.

So, according to our AI overlords, there are roughly 20,000 active pro boxers on the planet. 4500 from Mexico, 3500 are from the US, 1250 from Japan, 1,100 are from the UK, 500 from Russia, 200 from Ukraine... Africa gets murky but there are 200 from Ghana. That covers about half the total. Places like the Philippines give no definitive number.

 

Perhaps with the More Champions, though I do think that has benefits as well as detriments.

I'm old. I've lived through a lot of eras, most of which labeled themselves as horrible at the time, including what is now perceived as the red hot early 90's. Hell, I recently posted on the General about being really disinterested after last weekend's retread fest of Fury, Wach, Spence, Tszyu... It will bounce back with some great fights, always does.

 

apart from the pathetic obvious watering down of the Sport, mentioned here by myself and many others, it's plain to see... any sport that would have a TF listed as a great or even greatest is obviously pretty poor, and it so so plain to see among many fights, half the time you can barely even watch them, especially among the big boys.

also, if it hadn't lost any appeal there wouldn't be near as much crumbling, criticism and complete disregard for it as we heard now in floods since the late 1990's

it's a changed dying sport, a mere shadow of it's greatest days.

 

I do think the MMA explosion the last 20+ years is also a factor. The below clip is going viral of UFC fighter Bobby "King" Green clowning Adrian Broners protege in sparring

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While the top star boxers do make more than UFC stars, among the "middle class" fighters, you'll actually have somewhat more financial stability in the UFC than in boxing.

 

In the heavyweight division in particular fighters have gotten bigger and stronger. But I don’t necessarily see an increase in skill or quickness in that same division. Furthermore, it seems that on average people are turning pro later than they used to and fighting less often. I have my doubts about this being an improvement. Mind you of course, I’m basing these comments on an “ average “ and not making a blanket statement concerning EVERY participant in the game. Lastly, we see far fewer examples today of the best facing the best. And in some of the rare instances that we see it, the “ best “ are only still the “ best “ in name only as many times they are diminished…. In contrast, when Muhammad Ali met Joe Frazier in 1971 the two men were both undefeated and in their primes. When Ray Leonard met Tommy Hearns in 1981 they were at their peak. When Meldrick Taylor fought Julio Chavez in 1990 they were undefeated, holding world titles and scene as among boxing’s p4p elite. Today in most cases two young prime champions wouldn’t see a fight with each other until they are well into their 30’s ( or older ) and after accumulating a few losses each . Anthony Joshua should have fought Tyson Fury and Deontay wilder a decade ago. Today such a fight means F-All as did Mayweather vs Pac.

 

I'd say PPV and the growth of MMA and other martial arts are definitely underrated factors here, especially the model UFC uses, where they use a monolithic company to force everyone to fight the best constantly. It creates much better competition, competitive fights, and leaves no doubt as to who the best in the division is. Obviously, they've had more problems with this recently given the Ngannou/Aspinall/Jones triangle, but that's a fairly new problem they've faced with Dana branching out and the way he underpays them becoming a huge talking point.

Boxing promoters got too greedy with PPV, and it went from being a unique payment model for fights that the entire world sat up and took notice of, such as Holyfield vs Tyson 1, which was understandable, to one every single week. The format has pushed so many people to the fringes and been milked to death.

In the UK, you could watch Benn vs Eubank just by switching the TV on in the early 90s, 10 million people tuned in. Now, it's behind a paywall, on streaming services people don't use, badly marketed, and often complete mismatches. On top of that, you're paying PPV on top of a subscription for fights which are not PPV in a million years with the likes of DAZN. It's almost as if they don't want boxing fans to actually watch the sport.

We've got Rolly vs Teo, Itauma vs Hrgovic, and Benn vs Garcia all on PPV within the space of 3 weeks. None of them are PPV, the undercards are dog**** as well. Because of this, it leads into the likes of Keyshawn Davis thinking he should get 5 million for Haney, because he's watching B-grade fighters like Garcia and Benn make a fortune. It's very shaky foundations for a struggling sport, and a completely unsustainable approach.

 

Agree. I’ve been saying for years how cable networks and PPV has killed viewership of boxing, particularly in the younger generation .

 

We haven’t.

Let’s look division by division.

The prestigious ones first.

If you were watching in the 90’s, there’s no way that the sport has progressed since then.

 

One of the biggest regressions is boxing is now an impossible sport to follow .

There isnt one universal place you can watch and follow it. Not even the tv.....unless you like watching YT fights where the result is plastered in captions before you watch. No thanks

Until recently Sky didn't even have DAZN on its tv boxes..so what youre going to invite 5 buddies over for beer and gather around a small phone app screen. The DAZN tv app is clunky garbage too.

Who can be bothered getting all the apps? The UFC is still confined to 1 tv outlet you know exactly where to go.

The presentation of boxing is awful. Back in the 1980s and 1990s you used to get highlight reels of each fighter in the build up....ufc still do it....so that any first time viewer can instantly build up a rapport and sense of interest in who will prevail amongst the 2 fighters.

Presentation is just awful. The music and noise between rounds is off putting it doesnt help the atmosphere and tension.

Globalisation has resulted in a lack of regional boxing styles.

Commentary in the 80s and 90s was tremendous...it felt like sitting with friends. Now you have token unqualified commentators and pundits . Annoying voices and idiotic opinions

The sport itself is smaller but listen to Eddie Hearn less is more. 2 or 3 fights a year. You used to have weekly felt forum shows. Small regular fight shows like heavyweight explosion or usa .

Any big fight you still got old man Buffer taking 20 minutes to introduce the fighters add to that 10 minute ring walks. And why are fight officials and judges announced like v.i.p's....in this day and age of shortened attention spans its just heated up dogshite.

The UFC just get on with it.

As for in the ring fighting....ive hardly followed the sport since the Froch-Groves fights. What I do know in the UK at least is....the wide legged stand up style is over prevalent....mostly southpaws whose numbers have exploded....fainting skills to get inside arrle gone....no one dances like Ali anymore....less fights less fighters....the heavyweight division...the exceptions like fury and AJ and DD...there are too many bloated bruises who come in 250 plus.....Usyk and before him to a lesser extent Wilder showed the premium all time heavyweight will always be in the neighbourhood of 215-225lbs.

Yes with less shows less fighters and less fights old school skills ate lost despite the prevalence of YT.

To think back in 1989 World boxing magazine complained there were 57 world champions and a new upstart the WBO.. Beleive it or not in my early teens in 89 I could easily name all 57 world champions off the top of my head.....I still can down to about Featherweihht.

Right now I haven't followed the sport or haven't been allowed to this whole decade but even I know boxing world champions are a knockoff counterfeit entity.... ow you got interim,super,jnr,regular ,silver,world champions x 4 world bodies alone its far far worse and the sport is unfollowable when you add the regional titles etc.

The entire sport needs a reset to where the British title, European and comme wealth meant something and just 3 world champions per division thats it with unification taking place in super 6 events.

Prize fighter tournaments were a great concept too.

The fundamental premise of the sport ie 2 boxing competing against each other is still sound.

The rest I describe is all wrong

 

Fantastic post worth coming on here for tonight alone.

 

I think one of the claims re mod. training and nutrition has been that it has allowed for boxers to fight viably into more advanced ages.

However, that oversimplified conclusion doesn’t account for later career starts, far less frequent schedules, engagement of like aged (viz: relatively old) opponents and somewhat less prime best vs prime best match ups.

 

The most important thing to me about the idea of regression is the visual test. When I look at Fighters for most of the previous eras, even the average contenders would overall beat the living crap out of most of the best of our day.

You can talk all you want about size, athleticism, modern conditioning and diet improvements, Etc., but when the visual test is applied, it is immediately apparent to me that fighters of the past were far superior.

 

Back in the 90's when I was told Holyfield was B-level placeholder champ, when everyone was pining for the next SRL and Tyson? Yeah, I was watching.

We're just in a quick transition period.

 

What's a TF