Was Ali still great in Manilla?

Yes, he was still great. He just wasn’t nearly what he used to be.

 

Ali was as great as needed; he can't be that great to knock Frazier out (I'm not saying he could).

 

the last fight where he came in very tip top shape capable of enduring a super tough battle,other than this i'd say it would be the Shavers fight.

 

Under those horrible conditions, against a force of nature like Joe Frazier who never took a step back ... yeah, he was great; a dozen other HW champs from any era would have quit, or been KO'd by either Frazier or the heat (or both). It was the fight that should have retired them both.

 

My favourite quote is they were fighting for the championship of each other. And I'll tell you what, whoever won THAT championship THAT night was a nailed on ATG. Nothing less would do...

 

If he hadn't been great he might not have left that ring alive. I'm not using hyperbole.

 

Greatness is revealed in the furnace of adversity.

Both fighters weren't at their peak, but all things considered, only those two could motivate each other to perform to such a high level of warriortude.

You simply cannot fight that way, under those conditions, over that length of time and not be great. An absolutely great fight from two great fighters who were able to reach deep and produce the magic one last time.

 

Yep. But more so on his sheer fighting ability in exchanges, durability, and resilience.

 

One of those rare fights that goes beyond conditioning into the realm of literally endurance — what is a man able and willing to endure to prevail.

My viewpoint is the effect of the punches in the second half or so of the fight were magnified because the gloves became waterlogged from sweat. It can only happen in conditions where great heat and humidity are combined, which was the case in Manilla. In dry desert heat like Las Vegas, a man is sapped the sweat evaporates. You can see the gloves in this fight begin to take on weight from that and kind of hear it in the noise from the landed punches.

This was probably the most extreme weather conditions of any fight since John L and Jake Kilrain battled for 75 rounds (2+ hours) in the summer heat of Mississippi.

Neither Ali nor Frazier would yield to the other or the conditions. “It was the closest thing to death,” Ali would say.

Yes, these men were extraordinary on this day. Warriors in ways only warriors truly understand.

Someone once said something like — sometimes boxing is about skill and technique; sometimes it’s about physical ability and power that separates two men; sometimes, boxing is caveman **** … who wants it more, who will dig deeper. These men dug as deeply as any two men ever have, imo.

There is, indeed, greatness in that.

“No one will ever forget what you did here today,” Eddie Futch told a blinded Frazier when he stopped it after 14 rounds.

None of us should ever forget what either did on that day.

 

IMHO Ali and Frazier were about 70-75% of what they were at their respective peaks when they fought in Manila.

 

Thanks for this thoughtful post.

 

This was the fight that made Ali a top three all time great. This bout checked any boxes that were unchecked.

 

He was not great except in heart. A plethora of heavies since would have grabbed the W that night.