Is Usyk a Top 10 Heavyweight of all time?

I'm having a trouble with no10, can't decide between Uysk and Chris Byrd a.k.a. the Klitschko Killer.

 

Hard to be "a Klitschko killer" when the younger brother destroyed you twice. If anything he's a "Vitali stopper".

 

Here is a quick top 10.

Lewis, Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Klitschko, Holyfield, Holmes, Usyk, Marciano, Johnson? Tyson?

Usyk doesn't seem out of place to me.

 

Dont think i have ever seen a top 10 that does not include Louis

 

You left out Joe Louis which is a pretty glaring name to leave out considering he's recognised as the number 1 or 2 Heavyweight of all time.

My top 10 in no order.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Marciano
Wladimir
Foreman
Holyfield
Tyson
Frazier

Usyk doesn't replace any of these names IMO.

Usyk is more like top 15 rather than top 10.

 

Joe Louis?

 

Yes! Obvious omission, I was more concerned about not leaving Tyson off (even though I flip flop on his rank a lot)

 

Yeah I was just throwing out names in no order and forgot. Addressed it to Noel but he's obviously #2 behind Ali for me

 

That's a solid list and I can see it being hard to put Usyk in there over those names for some.

What's 11-15 for you?

 

Off the top of my head in no order.

Vitali
Johnson
Usyk
Liston
Dempsey

 

Are we talking HWs vs HWs, or modern-day LHWs vs HW's of the 60's-early 70's? Because a lot of the heavyweights Ali fought would probably have to trim down to LHW to even be able to compete in this era.

How would guys like Henry Cooper, Doug Jones, Jerry Quarry, Bonavena, Jurgen Blin, Bob Foster and Rudie Lubbers fare vs Beterbiev, Bivol, Benavidez, Kovalev...

Which are technically more advanced?

 

The names you mentioned are a bit of a cherry pick narrative.

You've mentioned Beterbiev, Bivol, Benavidez, who are the best Light Heavyweights of this era.

Yet you mention the likes of Cooper, Blin, Lubbers, who are hardly the best Heavyweights of that era ?

That's not really a fair comparison is it ?

Why are you not mentioning the likes of Liston, Frazier, Patterson, who would obviously be more than a match and then some for the names you mentioned.

 

1) Undefeated
2) Six successful defenses of 3 of the 4 major belts
3) Three successful defenses of the 4th major belt

And this is before going into even some of the copious detail Serge laid out.

I can almost accept that he clocks in at #11 ....

But (and I LUV Frazier), these numbers alone would allow him to edge into Smokin' Joe's slot in the above listing.

 

Nah, don't see it. The only thing Usyk has over him is the undefeated aspect and longevity. The former because he didn't have a Foreman or Ali level fighter in his era to fight, and the latter because it's easier to be great at 38 if you've fought once a year, for every year (except 2024) since you were 31.

Frazier has the greatest win in the history of the division against the Heavyweight GOAT. Usyk's best wins are a solid 3-4 tiers below that. Frazier did a better job of actually beating the opposition available, as well. Ali aside, he's got Quarry x2, Ellis x2, Bonavena x2, Chuvalo, Bugner, Mathis, Ramos, Machen and Jones on his ledger. Plus he's got a better title fight record than Usyk, as well.

You can argue that the trio of Fury, AJ and Dubois were the best 3 available guys for Usyk all you want, and it's true, but Frazier also beat his top 3. Usyk however doesn't have wins over a Hrgovic, Wardley, Zhang, or a Bakole type the way Frazier did with the guys of his era. You'd have to cheat and get the guys he beat at Cruiserweight to match that depth, and Briedis aside, I don't see how they're any better than the guys Joe beat.

 

i was going to reply but dynamicpuncher covered what i was going to say. and loakeim tzotzakis offered the proper perspective to the question.
i judge the quality of a fighter by how good he does what i know is suppose to be done. technically and strategicly. the way i have my own criteria for performing at the level i call elite for todays fighters, i had back in the 80's. and ever since. i can also separate the almost elite from the resume filler. ive never seen so much glorified resume filler in an era.