Does Usyk's last performance affects his ranking on an ATG heavyweights list?

Are most Boxing fans really in the dark on Kickboxing like this? Have you watched any Kickboxing or Muay Thai at all from ONE Championship, Glory or the K1-era? Those dudes are some of the top strikers of the world, and they are absolutely crazy too! They go head on full collision course at the sound of the bell.

Are you aware of how many decent-good-elite Boxers have their backgrounds in Kickboxing? These are some I can list here: Vitali Klitschko, Povetkin, Jarrell Miller, Dillian Whyte, Briedis, Marco Huck, Paul Briggs, Chris Algieri, Caleb Plant, Ricky Hatton, Tyrone Spong, Nieky Holzken...

In fact, you could argue Usyk embarrassed himself already back in 2018 vs Mairis Briedis... After all, Briedis is a Kickboxer/Muay Thai fighter, isn't he? LOL. Usyk was also supposed to fight a Kickboxer, Tyrone Spong, in his first fight at HW.

Just to see how dangerous the hands of top Kickboxers are you can view Cosmo Alexandre-Sage Northcutt.

When Sage left the the UFC and went over to ONE he was scheduled to fight Cosmo in his first MMA bout there. The first punch Cosmo landed after 29 seconds severely fractured Sage's face and cheekbone. Sage was had no business facing Cosmo, but it still proves how dangerous the fists of top Kickboxers are (they're not pillowfists). And Cosmo Alexandre had previously been knocked out by Nieky Holzken; the same Nieky Holzken who had a close fight with Callum Smith...

 

Not all of them switched to Boxing early. Btw, Which of them are C-level? Tyrone Spong? Rico's been sparring elite Boxers for 15 years with Peter Fury as a coach, so that's got to count for something.

When you say "life and death" it seems like you haven't rewatched the fight or slowed down sequences when Usyk landed uppercuts on the inside throughout the fight. Usyk was also rolling with a lot of the punches Rico was throwing. And the majority of Usyk's fight at elite level are either stopped late or decision wins anyway.

Hoost wouldn't last 2 rounds vs Tyson, but maybe vs a 39-year old Tyson? Hoost lost to Bob Sapp anyway, so I wouldn't rate him anywhere near Rico.

 

I find your posts very strange.

On the one hand, you’re not surprised that a novice boxer, who was a kick-boxer, gave a great fight to an elite level P4P fighter.

Yet on the other hand, from reading your posts on other threads, you don’t think actual boxers from earlier eras, could beat any/many of today’s guys.

So how do you come to that conclusion?

Bizarre.

 

Kickboxing is more advanced with a larger talent pool and more organizations now. Would Rico lose to Bob Sapp? Highly unlikely, imo.

Holzken gave Callum Smith a hard fight, that's not C-level. Wach, Duhaupaus, andy Ruiz Jr., Lenier Pero, etc, are not C-level opposition. At worst Miller's B-level. He also gave Dubois some problems.

Tyrone Spong is largely unproven, but he was supposed to be a tougher test than Chazz Witherspoon for Usyk.

Rewatch the Usyk-Rico fight and slow down sequences when Rico was bumrushing Usyk in the clinch. That's where Usyk was landing a lot of uppercuts that eventually broke Rico down. Like I also said, Usyk was rolling with a lot of the punches that looked vicious in real time. Rico's success was largely when he bumrushed Usyk and utilized his size advantage.

The fight was pretty much even until the (early) stoppage.

 

that's a ****ed up poll considering the headline. bait and switch with an agenda. just what we need more of.

in the language of my forebears: STFU NOOB

go away alt

 

Striking arts in general are way more advanced, with more athleticism involved. Fighters (in general) are bigger, more technical, more "supplemented", more knowledgeable in sports science, better weight bullies, etc, etc.

If you put a lot of modern-day HW Kickboxers into the 60's-70's Boxing era (the "Golden Era") they'd probably go straight to the top. Rico is an athletic freak (with good ring-IQ) with his movement and agility.

 

I don't like to say this but how can it not? I know what a prime Mike Tyson is doing to a 1 or 2 fight boxing novice!

 

To me, it is the fact that Rico is not a boxer that makes the bout completely unimportant to Usyk’s legacy or all-time ranking. You could see when he was coming into the ring that Usyk had not taken the fight seriously. He was a little softer than normal and a little bigger than normal. This was nothing more than a money grab. It was not a fight he truly cared about.

If you want to ding Usyk for being underprepared and lackadaisical that’s fine, but it doesn’t really affect anything as to his all-time ranking or his legacy.

 

The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

Usyk is an outstanding boxer when looking at his career as a whole—Olympic boxing, WSB, cruiserweight, and heavyweight. He might well be the best European in boxing history. But at heavyweight? Let's not exaggerate; his standing stems from the fact that he moved up from a lower weight class into the land of giants, yet he has beaten only five heavyweights. His fights with Fury and AJ were very close, and neither opponent was in his prime anymore. I don't think Usyk would have beaten the 2015 version of Fury or the 2016 version of AJ—certainly not twice.

Like it or not, kickboxers who are competitive in boxing set the benchmark for the sport's level. Of course, both Fury and Usyk approached fights against Ngannou and Rico much like Tyson approached his bouts with Buster and Holyfield—but didn't that affect his reputation and historical ranking? It certainly did—and it affects Usyk's standing, too. I recently read a debate about what might have happened if Ali had had more fights before facing Frazier in 1971. But what if Rico or Ngannou had had even one solid boxing match—say, like Usyk’s fight against Chisora? Frank was coming back after a two-year injury layoff and was 38 years old—the same age as Holmes when he fought Tyson and gave the best heavyweight of the time a real run for his money; it was incredible. Unfortunately, this speaks volumes about the current state of the heavyweight division and serves as a reference point for Usyk's place in history.

I’m not disparaging athletes from other combat sports. Did you know that Cro Cop—famous for his lethal kicks—was a top-10 European amateur boxer in the super-heavyweight division? ...and he was much smaller and couldn't kick, after all. On the other hand, an aging and shopworn Frank Botha was a significant player in the golden era of K-1, even though he couldn't kick. It cuts both ways.

But the Rico vs. Usyk idea is an embarrassment for boxing, for the current heavyweight division, and—unfortunately—for Usyk as well.

For me, though, Oleksandr is comfortably a top 10–15 heavyweight of all time; nothing will change that now.The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.