Which Heavyweight Is Possibly Overrated Because Of Nostalgia?

Regardless, the idea of him as being some kind of any-era guy is absurd. You can call it as you like.

 

I just can’t believe Tyson isn’t being mentioned more. For a guy who last against every great heavyweight he fought who wasn’t old, he finds his way to winning a lot of fantasy match ups.

I LOVE Tyson too, just being real though.

 

Johnson
Wills
Baer
Bonavena

 

Can’t see how Liston can be viewed as a weight bully.

He cleaned out the deemed best of the open cheque HW division - he didn’t pick and choose his opp. based on their weight - their weights were happenstance.

Even so, Liston didn’t just beat small guys. He also beat comparably sized guys also - including Henry Clark when Sonny was already well past it.

How Liston beat his opposition is also important - many of whom Sonny made short work of.

While Patterson might’ve weighed 189 lbs or so, no one did to Patterson what Liston did, before or after Liston’s back to back 1st round destructions - both fights being the only times when Floyd had 10 counts tolled over him.

Would any incarnation of Usyk achieve similarly impressive results against that same Patterson? - personally, I highly doubt it…far from it.

Perceived best performances don’t necessarily have to involve best opposition -
see Ali vs Williams for one prime example.

Well, over 2 fights we know what Liston did to 6-7 years younger version of Williams without a bullet lodged in his gut at not so small weights of 210 lbs and 215 lbs respectively, with Sonny making even shorter work of the dangerous Big Cat the second time around.

Those 2 performances embodied much of what prime Liston was about in terms of him being an elite boxer/power puncher.

Liston’s best weight - 211/212 lbs wasn’t the all conquering factor that some play it off as. Not really a huge weight even back then.

Rather, Liston was a freak of nature in terms of build which saw him carry weight transcendent strength and power in complement to his excellent boxing skills.

 

He was a modern day Cruiserweight but with a relatively long reach solid technical skills and KO power i think he'd compete in any era especially because Foreman sparring him and personally saw him as elite. Liston wouldn't be the best today but he'd be a top guy

 

Foreman loved him. These guys often say gracious things about each other. Ali, for example, said that Marciano might beat him. Do we take that to mean Marciano could compete today?

Liston would be a cruiser champ if he fought there, and if he cultivated himself there, and built himself up ala Haye or Usyk, he might get a heavyweight belt if he got the right guy. But no, he would not be some heavyweight terror.

 

Ali never sparred any relevant version of Marciano, but for obvious reasons you keeps circling back to him

Liston had no consistent issues with the few big men he faced compared to the smaller guys. All of it is hypothetical, but Liston has the tools to still be a top 5 guy today if not higher and he's more refined technician than someone like Dubois or Gassiev they're just bigger, but both of them lost to a Cruiserweight lmao, Liston isn't losing to Wallin buddy. If your good enough your big enough.

 

Not really important. Besides, Foreman sparred Sonny well past his best.

 

My apologies.

How about this:

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Nothing clear about it. Ali landed pillow punches on Shavers' gloves for most of the night whereas Shavers landed real bombs. I think Ali lost.

 

The attempt by Usyk fans to discredit Ali by repeatedly pointing to the Cooper match.

Cooper caught a young arrogant Clay with a big left hook. In the rematch, he couldn't lay a glove on him. Ali's peak was between 64-67 and during this time, he was indeed hard to hit. Not impossible but once he matured from a cocky arrogant young guy into a more mature careful one, he was very hard to hit. And the Cooper knockdown no doubt helped him.

By the way, i do not count the Young fight or Norton 3 as wins for Ali. Norton deserved the nod in their last fight and Young arguably deserved the nod too. But this was a fading fighter with lots of miles under the clock. I have no problem admitting when someone got favourable judging.

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Ali did not lose to Shavers and nor did he land pillow punches. Ali had Shavers badly hurt around 16:20 in the video.

Regardless, who exactly has Ali's resume? Foreman, Frazier and Liston are unanmously regarded as top 10-15 heavyweights of all time and he is 5-1 against them. He has credible wins over some of the hardest hitting heavyweight sluggers over in Earnie Shavers and Ron Lyle.

He is 2-0 vs a very good contender in Joe Bugner. He is 2-0 vs Jerry Quarry, a man widely considered amongst the top 10 heavies to never win a title. He has good wins over tough durable guys like Oscar Bonavena, tall outboxers like Ernie Terrell, 2-0 vs hall of famer Patterson, 2nd win over Norton, he was the first heavyweight champion in history to defend his title vs a southpaw, he fought more good heavyweights than anyone else in history.

Seriously, dude's resume is unmatched. He wasn't perfect but the idea he is overrated is absurd. No heavyweight since has even come close to matching the depth of his resume.

 

Liston had tremendous power. He might actually match up much better vs bigger guys. Some fighters match up better vs bigger slower fighters. So yes, i do believe he would be a terror.

 

Nope. The successful post by me to show that a young Ali who was not 35 was well hittable.

1:18

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Yeah, I think we're done here.

 

I never once said he was unhittable. I said he was hard to hit. Every heavyweight is hittable for god's sakes, Jesus.

 

"In the rematch, he couldn't lay a glove on him."

 

i meant that he couldn't properly hurt him. That should be simple enough to understand.