Mike Tyson v Vitali Klitschko

Tony Tucker is good, but he is somehow overrated beyond belief by certain groups of boxing fans. I think it's mostly Tyson fans trying to show that Tyson could beat tall and big elite heavyweights. While I also acknowledge that some people exaggerate Tyson's problems with bigger fighters, he clearly struggled with them more than he did with smaller and shorter opponents.

I also want to state that Vitali is overrated as well, but he is certainly in the H2H top 15.

 

Vitali missed 800 punches against Kingpin because Johnson showed him a pound shop shoulder roll. He couldn't even stun Chris Byrd due to his defence. Vitali isn't landing a glove on Tyson.
Tyson already beat the Vitali archetype in Tucker.
Vitalis best win is a washed up Sam Peter who wouldn't be a top 10 win for Mike Tyson. Vitali is C level resume with limited skills and no variety.
No real unbiased fan thinks his basic 1-2 is going to over come the Heavyweights greatest ever defensive / offensive strategist.

 

I don't know which Tyson you're talking about, but I'm talking about 1988 Mike Tyson, and he would beat Vitali on points. Vitali would put up better resistance because he has a better chin than Tucker and Smith.

 

Dino I am fine if you disagree, but you are not being HONEST here.


1) I wrote a whole host of skills including punches & strategies that go WAY beyond a "basic 1-2".
To ignore every point & sentence is not being rational-& advertises that you have no rebuttal to my arguments.

2) How is it honest to cherry pick facts-which you exaggerated, although it was 715 missed punches by Vitali...
& ignore that Vitali beat Johnson by 120-108 according to 2 judges, & one 119-109.
So his activity while seemingly inefficient still meant he landed enough-& aggression thwarted Johnson adequately-to win the bout by a GREATER margin that Tyson over Tucker!
Thus such a dominant performance is a terrible argument to support that Tyson would win.

3) You are also effectively being *dishonest* to ignore me politely calling you out on your very basic error, claiming Tyson won every round over Tucker.
People notice these seemingly ego-based avoidance of personal accountability.
Way better, even just for your reputation & getting along with people, to apologize & admit the obvious, glaring errors.

4) I showed you why & how Vitali is much better than Tucker, & they are not that similar.

5) "no real unbiased fan" agrees Vitali will win?!?
Since MOST of us disagree, then instead of politely disagreeing, you are impugning most of us here as biased &/or not a real fan.
Not disagreeing with equanimity. Seemingly projecting your *own* extreme bias.

6) I would question the intellectual honesty OR say it reflects "extreme bias" to claim amongst 2 past champions, one "would not lay a glove" on the other.
Exceptions could be extreme differences in size & eras-but to say this about a SHW who absolutely dwarfs your own & rarely loses rounds is insanity.

Please, it is embarrassing to pick your guy as winning that way.
Especially when Vitali dwarfed him.
You could make a better argument the other way around.


But if you make a thread about it or ask most anyone here, your extremely one-sided views would be soundly rejected.
Even amongst all but the most fanatical Tyson fans.

 

Fair enough.
But Vitali's resume also gets underrated-although it was not Ali-esque.
Peters, Hide, Chisora, Arreola, Briggs, Ademek, Bean, Donald, Johnson, Norris, Sosnowski, Gomez, Williams...some guys beat bigger names, but *when* they fought them they were fairly washed up.
Examine the record of these men when Vitali fought them. https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/7033

Again I am NOT saying he fought great guys overall.
But he fought some good people with sterling records.
You can cherry-pick anyone-like show Ali fighting poor opposition from Europe including Cooperman, Evangelista, Spinks had done nothing...

It is a case where Vitali was better than his opposition, but they were good enough & he was SO dominant overall, that yes, top 15 head to head is likely conservative.
And he was not a Clinch-ko like his Brother.

Also, while Wlad clearly accomplished much more in the ring-NOT counting the amateurs -Vitali is rumored to have done better in the sparring sessions thay had, later called off because they got too intense.
Vitali described as having more mental & physical endurance.

 

Possible results:

Tyson by UD
Tyson by KO / TKO
Tyson by DQ
Draw
Klitschko by UD
Klitschko by KO / TKO
Klitschko by DQ

Of all these, Tyson on points is the least likely result.

 

Ali had fought everyone and was so active that it's hard to even criticize him for fighting Evangelista and Spinks. As for Vitali's resume, he fought good names up until his first retirement in 2004 and then came back during one of the worst eras in heavyweight history (he got some solid wins still), so it's hard to knock him for that. I see Vitali's resume similarly to Tyson's. Their resumes are weak by ATG standards, but because of how they looked in the ring and the circumstances that took them out of the sport, they get more grace. Like Tyson, Vitali is firmly outside my top 10 heavyweights.

Vitali does have a good top six, though. Here's my list:

Larry Donald — Vitali is the only person to stop Larry Donald. Even a prime Bowe and Povetkin couldn't stop the underrated Donald. After this fight, Donald went on to get two of his best wins over Holyfield and Valuev (was a robbery).

Samuel Peter — Peter would normally never be this high, but given the circumstances of Vitali being out of the ring for so long, along with the fact that Peter was a good fighter, I put this at #2.

Derek Chisora — Vitali beat Chisora while injured and won by a landslide on the scorecards. Compare that to Usyk, Parker, and Kabayel (to be fair, Kabayel was still green), who all fought worse versions of Chisora and struggled much more despite being among the best heavyweights today.

Kirk Johnson — One of the most underrated fighters, with plenty of solid wins. He did get disqualified against John Ruiz, but he was winning the fight before giving it away by fouling. Johnson was never stopped before Vitali knocked him out in two rounds.

Corrie Sanders — Coming off his shocking knockout of Wlad, Sanders gave Vitali a dangerous challenge. Despite Sanders being out of shape, he was still dangerous, and Vitali came back from a 1st round knockdown to stop him.

Tomasz Adamek — A two-division champion who had a decent heavyweight run with wins over Arreola, Estrada, and Grant before facing Vitali.

 

I think Solis and Gomez would've beaten some of these guys.

 

Gomez probably would have beaten Adamek, but Gomez was TKO'd by Yanqui Diaz, who, by the way, got almost beaten to death by Samuel Peter, while Kirk Johnson won a decision over him. Compare that to Adamek, who had no losses (expect Dawson at 175) going into the Vitali fight, which meant he had much more momentum and was regarded as a better win.

Solis was so undisciplined that I wouldn't pick him over any of these boxers.

But the main point wasn't really who the best H2H opponent Vitali beat was, but rather who had the better resume and how Vitali beat them. That said, I'm curious who would you pick to lose against Solis and Gomez, and how do you see those fights playing out?

 

You know his opposition & their then current status better than mine, & I appreciate the supporting knowledge!
About Ali, I only meant that cherry-picking sub par opposition instead of evaluating the total picture can be done with anyone.
Although unless a fighter is giving worthy title shots at least twice a year, I still must critique giving no-hopers the opportunity instead.

Having Vitali outside of a top 10 list is very understandable, but I think he showed enough-especially how he dominated-that he is very arguable for top 10 head to head.

A skilled boxer with an unorthodox approach, plenty of size, an amateur & kick boxing pedigree, high volume puncher, granite chin, an win with an injury, endurance & can find another level late in a fight...
He is a more known quantity than say Ike, very tough...

Combine that with rarely losing rounds, 87.5 KO%, & difficult to see other elites outpointing him...
We will be elss certain than with others due to slightly limited career, but if all ATG HW boxers were reincarnated for a round robin tournament under neutral rules, with fair officiating...
I would be fairly comfortable wagering a great deal (if I ever did that, or was forced to)...
That Vitali would enable me to survive, win me whatever esteemed prize...

I might even let it ride for double or nothing at Top 5!

 

When I said I have Tyson and Vitali outside my top 10, I was talking about greatness, which can basically be boiled down to accomplishments. I don't have an H2H list, but if I did, I'd probably have Vitali inside my top 10.

 

I knew what you meant, & the difference could be that Vitali's career accomplishment list can easily be twice as high a # as his H2H verdict!
Especially if you do not weight the former by grading on a scale to account for at least bigger-& therefor on avergae better-more recent HWs.

So if he is 12 or 14 legacy-wise, given his unusual skill set...6 or 7 H2H is very reasonable.

 

Solis, on the night he lost to Vitali, might've been a favorite over your entire list and Gomez, assuming the knee injury wasn't inevitable. I'm mentioning Gomez too because he never really was in danger of losing a fight other than getting caught cold once before fighting Vitali.

 

I think Solis was the one that had something wrong with his right knee, and judging by his performance that night with Vitali, I don't think he would have beaten anyone on the list.

Gomez did get caught cold coming in to the fight, which is why I didn't add him to the list, but he would be a good #7-#10 in my top 10 Vitali wins.

 

If Solis had a knee injury coming in, I’m sure it was more of the routine variety since he came in without a brace and was employing a stick and move gameplan even though he liked to slowly walk his opponents down. He tore basically every single thing in his knee on the knockdown, which is extremely rare in boxing and not even that common in bball.