Do Old- school Heavyweights GetUnfairly Dismissed Because Of Their Size?

Look at his jab and movement

 

As I said: he's probably the pick of the bunch but he'd be bang middle of the road nowadays. Any elite fighters would very probably spank him. I went pretty hard for Primo in the Carnera vs Bowe thread we had a while back, but when I actually sat down and watched a lot of footage back to back, it became clear that Carnera is not on the same level as modern top guys. Sorry.

 

That's because the Carnera footage is grainy in black and white. Imagine if Lewis vs Vitali was in grainy black and white footage? You would say they are 2 oafs stumbling around.

 

The Carnera footage is not THAT bad.

Edit: Here is some. Nobody is going to confuse Carnera with a world champion today

This content is protected

 

You can see the Vitali similarity

 

What both being male and white?
Meen was stopped 23 times.

 

I have my eye on you

 

Ditto.

 

Two arms and two legs? You got me

 

Nice series of posts on this thread.

Im rather old fashioned in my opinion that 208-220 lbs is the absolute premium for a world class talented Heavyweight.

Someone like Bonecrusher Smith or even a Lennox Lewis were better at 225lbs in terms of physical attributes and ability than at 240 and 250. The same goes for Tyson.

The Klitchko brothers,Fury,AJ and any of the 245-270 lbs also rans of the last 20 years prove my point. There are glaring weaknesses in all of them.

Leaving aside the past greats I have little doubt that a prime 199lbs Jones jnr of say 1998 vintage and the brief prime HW Toney we saw could have caused a world of trouble for these modern guys much less what a Foreman,ListonJohnson and yes Dempsey and Marciano could do.

The latter 2 simply had too much toughness and temprament the modern guys didn't..both would comfortably be 15 lbs heavier and with videos of their opponents like modern fighters I see them cleaning out the modern scene.

Modern revisionism is very unkind to a Michael Spinks and indeed to the drink and drugs ravaged inactive Gerry Cooney of the 1980's but both were a cut above most 80's heavyweights. Spinks comprehensive destruction of Cooney was remarkable.

Do I think the Spinks who beat a 6ft 3 230lbs Holmes would be bothered by the Klitchko's or Fury? No. Im not saying he wins but he would definetely beat Valuev. Nor would any intimidate him like Tyson did.

Most these modern super heavyweights are just fat ( Whyte,Chisora and others) and to think back in the 80's boxing writers humiliated and loaded guys like Witherspoon Page,and Tubbs as " fat'.

 

I know the big men of the past were not all that technically sound but good lord has anyone watched Wilder? Dubois? Wardley? We can go on the list of extremely unskilled HWs is that are massive is at an all time high. They do know how to at range slightly better than previous big men but they lack all other skills. No defense no faints no parries no counters no head movement terrible inside fighting and poor combos. But they are strong

 

The guys who were big enough to be small modern heavyweights shouldn't be dismissed. But when I see comparisons of Marciano, Frazier, Patterson, just come on. Marciano and Patterson would be SMW's or light heavys in today's world, depending on how well they handled dehydration. Frazier would be a light heavy or a cruiser depending on how well he handled dehydration.

To put it another way -- how would Bivol do against today's crop of heavyweights despite being quicker and more skilled than all of them?

 

I wouldn't put Dubois in the same realm as Wilder or Wardley. Dubois is robotic and not really adaptable, but his basics / fundamentals are solid. Dubois would absolutely maul every single one of the big men of the past.

 

There are instances when a “softened” lens can do certain people a very big favour.

 

At least for Frazier and Patterson, you can't admit that since they were the best wins of Liston and Ali. It doesn't make Liston and Ali any less. They beat the best heavyweights of their day put in front of them. It wasn't like there was a Riddick Bowe out there roaming about who they avoided.

But calling Michael Spinks a "blown up light heavyweight" or saying Marciano beat "light heavyweights and super middles" is a way to insult Tyson or Marciano. Admitting Frazier could fight at cruiserweight or even light heavyweight today would mean they can't use that as an insult and it would mean Ali struggled with a fighter who wouldn't be fighting as a heavyweight in 2026 because he'd be too small.