People pick Joe over super heavies but not Marciano

For the most part, neither was Frazier beating modern size super heavyweights. 200 pounds is not a magic number. What top tier heavyweight today is at or barely 200 pounds? If Holyfield fought in the 1970s, he'd have been fighting at 187-190 pounds his whole career. And a 187-190 pound Holyfield would have done excellent in Frazier’s HW era and would consistently be a top contender. But he had to bulk up for the era he was in. David Benavidez would be a heavyweight in the 60s and 70s. At 6'2 196 pounds and bigger than Henry Cooper, yes he would. Call him a light heavyweight all you want. Not a light heavyweight by the standards of the year Frazier turned pro.

Frazier had T Rex arms compared to today's HW, also had a hittable style and was prone to swelling. Every criticism of Marciano applies to some degree to Frazier. But suddenly the criticism doesn't count when it's Frazier

What 5'11 205 pound swarmer that relies principally on a left hook is rated in the top 10 since the 90s, let alone a dominant undefeated champion? Especially 205 during same day weigh ins. Like it or not, Durham would have Frazier shedding the 6 whole pounds and weighing in at 199 and fighting at cruiserweight. Right with Marciano.

DB is taller and has a similar reach to Frazier but he's not venturing up to heavyweight to agitate for a fight with AJ or Fury or Wlad (if they were in the same era)

 

Not clones, however do have similar strengths and weaknesses. I think Ali would be more likely to open up a cut on Rocky and get a cut stoppage. I don't think Walcott would beat Frazier but I think Walcott makes it a war

 

Yeah but that's different from saying Marciano is too small.

Let's take Lennox Lewis. Most will give Marciano no chance against Lewis, but those exact same reasons also apply to Frazier.

No reason to think a Lewis uppercut stops Marciano but Frazier bulldozes his way through it to engage Lewis in Mortal Kombat when Frazier and Marciano were of similar durability. Marciano just cut easier. But no one is saying Lewis stops him on cuts after a battle of titans. Just he gets bulldozed over.

I honestly think it's because Frazier was in the so called golden era. It's the same reason why people are loathe to admit that many of today's light heavyweights would be valid Patterson, Liston, Ali and Frazier opponents. Because admitting that means that a good bulk of the top heavyweights of the era would be light heavyweights and not modern heavyweights today.

DB was 6'2 196 in his last fight and was looking good. With a 74 inch reach, he'd have been a valid heavyweight in the golden era and likely a top rated contender. So would Kovalev, Beterbiev and Michael Spinks. And they likely would be top rated contenders and if multiple belts were around back then, would have a great chance at capturing a heavyweight belt.

But then that would mean many of the top contenders of the 60s and early 70s golden age would be fighting as light heavyweights and cruiserweights today, which they feel diminishes the heavyweight golden age.

Zurdo was the same size as Jimmy Ellis when DB stopped him.

 

How do we know with modern nutrition and PEDs and weight training Marciano wouldn't be a muscular 220 pounds while not losing the attributes he had in his day? We don't know it about Frazier nor Marciano. I can say with modern training and nutrition, Max Baer and Buddy Baer dominates the 1990s heavyweight division. No one knows that.


I know they're not the same fighter but both would be too small for modern day heavies with their size and style, which is similar. But no one wants to admit it. Just like there's no 5'10 185-190 pound swarmer is for the same reasons there's no 5'11 205 lbs swarmer that depends on a left hook in today's heavyweight division.

 

Frazier was great for his time but he gets hit too much.

His style and attributes aren't suited to modern day heavies. Like there's no 185 pound swarmers who start slow dominating there's also no 205 pound, left hook dependent swarmers that start slow dominating and hasn't been since Frazier.

Marciano hit hard with both hands, while Frazier frequently depended on a left hook. It's debatable who had better offense.

You can argue Frazier gets hit too much and is prone to swelling.

Both would fight as cruiserweights, but Marciano may start at light heavyweight and move up to cruiserweight. You know who else would make light heavyweight? One of the flagship heavies of the so called golden age, Jerry Quarry. DB is 6'2 196 lbs in his last fight with a 74 inch reach. Quarry was 6'0 195-200 with a 72 inch reach.

I think Marciano and Frazier generally fare the same against the top heavies. Both could likely beat cherry picked modern heavyweights. Neither beat AJ or Wlad or Fury. Not a 185 pound slow starting swarmer nor a 205 pound slow starting swarmer. For the same reason

He didn't "get through Ali's jab", except for if you don't count the hundreds of jabs he took in over 40 rounds. Ali wasn't a power puncher. Foreman's jab stopped him in his tracks.

 

I never said that. You brought in hypothetical size with modern weight training and PEDs. I said that is pure speculation. For all I know, with steroids and weight lifting, maybe they do end up the same weight. We can't know that

 

Same here. But I guess people want the fantasy that Frazier would be competing and dominating in a modern heavyweight division. But he wouldn't for many of the same reasons Rocky wouldn't.